teagirl – Member

…………… Privatise and the care ethos gets turned upsidedown, profits always come before care. Council or state run places are better regulated and the training and regulation is statutory and mandatory, staff turnover isn't an issue, care far better in my experience.

Training and regulation are statutory and mandatory in the private sector – infact the regulatory regime is tighten than for council run homes.

You are not comparing like with like however – council homes are residential homes – no nursing care provided. Social care only. Nursing care has never been the remit of the councils. Any form of nursing care – for mental or physical ailments is done mainly in the private sector with a little NHS provision.

Project – If you have seen that then whistle blow – clearly unacceptable. Much of that again comes down to the lack of money in the system. I have worked in a whole variety of homes including some poor ones and have never seen some of what you say although some of it used to be commen – less so now.

In Scotland the incontinence pads are provided by the NHS unlike in England – that is one clear area that could be lobbied for. The manager of a nursing home must always be a qualified nurse.

Staff ratios in the NHS and private sector are identical

Some councils do run their own care homes. Hampshire has some, for example, and they are modern and purpose-built.

My father is not in a council run home (no vacancies), it's a private one. Top-up fees are paid for by the local council. It is excellent and the staff are so kind and caring. They do a really difficult job and have my respect.

But I do feel that all of us could spare a little of our time to relieve the tedium for residents. For example, everyone has a skill of some description and to spare an hour just once a year in a care home would be so beneficial. After all, the chances are that many of us will end up in one.

Lots of people can play an instrument, sing, dance, draw, paint etc. Another example, the manager of my father's care home breeds dogs (Newfoundlands) and was due to take one in to show the residents. Recently a guinea pig was taken in, the residents really enjoyed holding it and it was quite calming for them.

I do however hope that in my lifetime I will be able to choose when I wish to end my life. In fact, it would make sense to put something in my will.

The current funding system is unsustainable. We all need to pay more, are we prepared to do that?

project – that sounds awful, there must be something that can be done?

Tails – I shall attmpt to answer some of your stuff.

tails – Member

Yeah he should be coming home sometime (hopefully before xmas) just as he can no longer totally make his own decisions its very awkward as I think the social workers get the final call, which is some what of a piss take seeing my mother has known him for 40yrs.

Thats what the professionals try to tell you 'cos its easier for them. GEt advice if you haven't already from alzeimers society.

We have had a bed delievered along with this f**king winch, i mean why can't they just lift him, oh no can't do that lets get a winch he's seven f**king stone!!

I have a damaged back from lifting patients in the days before hoists. 7 stone lifted repeatedly will damage staff. Remember thay have more than just your day as a caseload. Before hoists I would lift and move a couple of tonnes a day. Sorry – that one is right

Alongside this the nurses sometimes help him walk, now this is something I could do at home, no if I drop him BIG trouble despite the fact that in hospital he fell out of bed, plus his ward has now got a Cdif patient.

Rubbish – dunno who has fed you that line but it is wrong. Smells of someone asscovering and not knowing what and why.

Tails – it is a very hard road you have – good luck

Cinnamen girl – you sure they are nursing homes not residential homes?

Other wise you are spot on.

TJ – I am sorry that you have not been able to fulfill your ambition of owning and running a care home. You seem to have so much compassion and genuinely want to do it for the right reasons. I would say it is Scotland's loss.

TJ – Hampshire County Council run a few homes which have both residential and nursing care within the same building.

tails – I wish you well and hope your father will be home for Xmas.

Thats what the professionals try to tell you 'cos its easier for them. GEt advice if you haven't already from alzeimers society.

Yeah we have good advice as my cousins mother is a nurse who had to deal with such things when my cousin had a tumour.

In regards to the winch, fair point. Although I often feel the nurses with the exception of the east asians, feel they can't handle him.

The last point is just from meetings my mother has been to. Anyway its going okay at the moment 50/50 split between highly professional staff who genuienly understand to staff who tick boxes.

Thanks for answering mine and everyone elses questions DrTJ 🙂

I am a nurse not a DR. Don't demote me!

Tails – good on yer for supporting your mum and your dad.

Nursing the Elderly should be treated as a speciality as childrens nursing or mental health nursing is IMO. Far too many nurses have no idea how to care for people with dementia

tails – I wish you well and hope your father will be home for Xmas.

Thanks CG, I hope so to considerring the way my father has lived his life the amount of illnesses he has suffered is very unfair.

I'll look into these council run-esque type homes you speak of, if only to give my mothers head a rest.

night all

Best of luck to Tails and family,for taking such good care of Dad.

The old saying seems true of parents,look after your kids because they decide which care home you go into,and look after you in old age.

Back on again tonight, 21.00 hrs BBC2,PART 2.

Essential viewing. More discussions afterwards no doubt!

Anyone watch this?

Yup and I have to say, it choked me up. Very pleased that this subject has been exposed, for those of us that haven't thought about it, to see.

It is a subject that is easier to ignore.

I watched it and was really upset by it – something I have never really thought of. Turned to the wife and said none of my family are going in one of them, ever. I will deal with it in mine/their houses before they go near one of those places – saying that though one of them was very good.

What a gang of muppets,the management where,they obviously lied,didnt have any idea of the concept of management,or resident care.

Pity on the poor residents who got shunted out all to probably different homes,with little warning,
when the home was closed by the Police and Social Services.
And bloody Care Standards that we pay for in our Taxes gave them an adequete rating from poor.

Some of the staff where obviously quite careing but due to serious and inefficent management failings,and the failings of the home,they lost out,and probably lost their jobs as well.

Watch the programe on I player and be amazed people like this can be senior management,also look at the faces of the residents as the programe progreses,and see the changes brought on by better management, think that could be me or my family in latter life,and hope that we dont go the same way,sadly i have very personal experience of this happening.

Its like a living nightmare,nobody cares,management lie,or resign,and residents die.

Here is the Care Quality Commissions report,Rated as ADEQUATE.
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Anyone watch this?

Yes. And last week.

I have seen both my grandmothers go through state run residential and nursing homes, and Mrs North's grandfather have a pretty grim time as he suffered from Alzheimers.

Mrs North, when an undergrad student and considering a career in medicine, worked in three residential and nursing homes, and so has direct experience of the varying levels of quality of care.

I know these programmes are carefully edited, but I was (alomst) moved to tears last night.

It all makes me ask why we are so ashamed of our old people that we feel that locking them away and removing their sense of identity is the only way for society to operate.

TJ, having had first hand experience of this type of care, knows full well how driven by profit the sector is. I can think of a national care home business (a client of my employer), which was so driven by greed that it is in such a perilous financial state that it may go bust. They clearly don't give a damn about the people they are caring for, the people who are actually their clients. It's shameful.

Another moving programme.

The Manager of the care home really did not have any leadership qualities therefore not the respect of the staff. Also personal friendship with her boss? The boss allowed that to get in the way of her professional judgment.

But once again the empathy, kindness and respect of some of the staff shone through, especially with regard to the changes that were instigated. It was amazing to see the difference in the residents, truly inspirational.

The end of the programme was a different matter. The distress of those poor people was quite haunting. What suffering for them, as well as confusion. Cruel.

PS: just read project's link to the Care Quality Commission's report. I find it extraordinary that it was upgraded yet had so many failings. How could this have happened? Does nobody speak up?

Cinnamon Girl,I spoke up,when it was my dad,the manager resigned,the other manager mis-represented his authority,and was reprimanded by care standards,in Wales,so he went off sick with stress,i had the choice of haveing the home in question shut down,but i refused,due to consideration for the other residents who it was their "HOME", not a care home,dad never went back there but spent 2 and a half months in hospital.

Social services where about as much use as a dog turd,they lied,hid the truth and lied again,only through the Freedom of Information Act did i find out the truth,and it was disgusting,and guess what the same company allowed an elderley resident to drink cleaning fluid from a water jug, she sadly died,they got fined 40,000 pounds,another chap rolled down a ramp,in a wheelchair and suffered a fractured skull,and was not found for an hour,then now their is a coroners inquiry ongoing into the death of an elderley resdident who fell from an upstairs window.

Please before your relatives go in a care home get the reports from the CARE QUALITY COMMISSION FOR FREE,or CSIW in Wales,read them ask questions of the management, and finally think could i live here.

You all owe it to your parents,and relatives.

Please before your relatives go in a care home get the reports from the CARE QUALITY COMMISSION FOR FREE,or CSIW in Wales,read them ask questions of the management, and finally think could i live here.

You all owe it to your parents,and relatives.

Agreed -Get the care commission report – ask the home for it – they have to provide you with one so if they are reluctant ask yourself why?

Use your nose – if a home smells of wee avoid it.

Look for purposeful activity when you visit not just residents sat mindlessly in front of a TV

If you want to have a look round a home and they will not let you just turn up any time outside their busy times like first thing in the morning then ask yourself what are they trying to hide. Any good home will be relaxed about you just rolling up for a look round.

Unfortunately if you use this selection criteria plus the smell test I can predict from personal experience you will be left with a very small short list of suitable homes.

Look for residents lieing on the floor as seen in the first programe,

look how many foreign workers are employed, as some of them cant speak or understand english,

ask for a copy of their complaints procedure,

ask what extras need to be paid for seperately,like phone calls,hairdressing and hospital visits,

ask about bed occupancy,how many beds available and how many beds,empty,lot of empty beds,ask why,

Ask lots of questions and take notes,google search the home,rememer you will be responsible for paying the fees,if the resident cant or want pay.