They took the whole of your final pay cheque - go for the jugular. Tahts bang out of order.
Do nothing until you get the advice.
Chat Forum
Debt to old company - Legal position / HR advice please
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Posted 6 months ago #
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I've never seen a professionally drafted employment contract that didn't include a provision to make deductions from salary in relation to debts to the company.
Alfabus I suspect you will have it the wrong way round about "policy forming part of the contract". Normally company policy and procedures do not form part of the contract (but breaking them is considered a disciplinary offence and may be grounds for dismissal).
They didn't say "you owe us nothing" the said you oweD us nothing at dd/mm/yy - that is not the same thing.
DDSo it doesn't seem like he's leaving because he's decided he's worth more. Or did you not read that bit?
I did but you seem to have missed this bit:they had given me a payrise to try to persuade me not to leave (too little too late).
TJmy memory is its not enforceable as its an unfair contractual term or something similar
I think I've seen similar suggestions about training paid for by the company, but I'm not sure that is exactly the same. (1) the employee is not the financial beneficiary of training (2) the company (usually) benefits from training the employee too. Reading between the lines, here we have an agreement which seems to have been made retrospectively as a "sweetener to stay" and then fairly soon after the employee is bailing out - which may not be fulfilling his side of the bargain. I agree though proper advice is the way to go - but it may not be quite as cast iron as others have implied.Posted 6 months ago # -
I asked MrsTJ
She thinks you will have to show a breach of contract by them to not have to pay it back.Perhpas the threat of a action for constructive dismissal might get them to pay up - I dunno. Constructive dismissal is very hard to show - without a cast iron case I wouldn't advise tribunal but the threat might work especially if you do have some dirt to throw
its often a good tactic to threaten that - companies are often proud of their public image and don't want muck to be thrown - and its likely to cost them to go to tribunal.
Depends to some extent why you left - how badly the fecked you over an what documentation you have.
Please let us know how it pans out.
good luck
Posted 6 months ago # -
I think I've seen similar suggestions about training paid for by the company, but I'm not sure that is exactly the same.
the one I was thinking about was training
Posted 6 months ago # -
Employer could have benefited from relocatiin too.
Poly how could this debthave arisen after the email?
Posted 6 months ago # -
There is some general information on these sort of clauses here:
http://www.roydens.co.uk/content03.htm
and here:
http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2006/12/13/38604/repayment-clauses-payback-time.html
Which seem to imply its down to the detail, and therefore you need professional advice (I've never dealt with Acas, but do the provide specific advice for this sort of thing or general in principle?). There may be a couple of things in your employers favour: (i) the amount repayable reduces over time; (ii) they left it flexible to they didn't have to recover anything - so the "severity" of the breach could be considered;
Posted 6 months ago # -
Al, Poly how could this debthave arisen after the email?
If you were acting for the company I think you would be arguing that the debt did not arise until 18/11/11 when the employee actually left. Certainly it couldn't arise prior to him handing in his notice, so if the date preceded this (it wouldn't be unusual for such things to be calculated to a month end as otherwise you don't know which systems are up-to-date) then it certainly would be true.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Not buying that!
Posted 6 months ago # -
Update:
Just spoke to ACAS; their view is that I have no real chance of keeping them money.
I received the money with clear upfront statements saying that I'd have to pay it back if I left, and this included them saying they would claim it back from my final salary (and request further money if that wasn't enough to cover it).
As for the email they sent saying that I didn't owe them anything; he said I could get a legal opinion on it, but most it is most likely that they will be able to point to it being a mistake, or that the person who sent the email wasn't in a position of knowing all the facts; i.e. it doesn't change anything.
Bugger.
He did say that if I wanted to be slow about paying them back, that is another matter, but that I should be careful to not let it escalate to the point of CCJs and debt collection agencies as that would just be a big mess.
Pay up, or 'lawyer up'? (to use an horrible Americanism)
Dave
Posted 6 months ago #
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