http://www.camdennewjournal.com/news/2012/aug/families-distraught-lorry-driver-involved-two-fatal-road-crashes-escapes-lifetime-ban

Words fail me!

banned for 6 years and yet by his own actions and history why is he allowed to ever drive again?

FFS how many people does he need to kill and how many driving offence does he need to rack up before they take away his HGV license? 👿

More detailed coverage on Martin Porter’s blog:
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/joao-lopes-sentence.html

As has been proven over and over again the best way to kill someone without having to do a lengthy jail term is to use a motor vehicle.

There is no justice in this country just courts of law.

A six year ban and four years in prison is hardly ‘getting away with it’.

As has been proven over and over again the best way to kill someone without having to do a lengthy jail term is to use a motor vehicle.

Or join the police force.

@ roadie:
i agree.
however to add a bit of balance, several workmates of mine have had their bus licenses revoked for minor cash irregularities, none of them have killed or injured anyone.

Shocking we need to take this seriously especially with repeat offenders

Clearly he does not meet the basic skill element of driving and is a danger to us all

Any plod /lawyers know if there is a maximum length ban from driving or could he have been banned for ever?

A six year ban and four years in prison is hardly ‘getting away with it’.

I would disagree, if we consider for a moment that he should have been wearing glasses but wasn’t and he has killed twice whilst driving.

4 years in jail, so out in two assuming he behaves himself, not really much of a punishment/deterrent is it?

The jail term is almost an irrelevance.

The question is why wasn’t he banned from driving for life, at least from HGVs?

And why doesn’t his employer face any penalties, especially as they must have been complicit in his tachograph fiddling?

And why is there no system to flag up HGV drivers with repeated accidents? Or ones with dodgy tachograph readings?

I’m not sure the jail term is an irrelevance. I’ve never been to prison but I’m not sure that it’s a place I’d describe as ‘irrelevant’.

Besides which, I would imagine that having served his four (or less) years in prison, and having been banned from driving a vehicle of any sort for six years, this individual may well struggle to be re-employed as a driver when he’s next eligible to work as one…sometime in the summer of 2018.

Any plod /lawyers know if there is a maximum length ban from driving or could he have been banned for ever?

Neither of them, but I do know that you can be banned for life. I know someone who has been banned for life 3 times!

This should result in a longer ban in itself:

The defendant had placed a powerful magnet on top of the tachograph [a device that records a vehicle’s speed and the distance it has travelled]. It was a large, round magnet attached to the sender unit and the effect was any message sent to the tachograph was being interfered with. The effect was that the lorry was shown at all times to be resting.

Such a sad case, even more so when you consider a proper investigation and conviction at the first instance would have saved a life.

In this case a band from driving for life would seem reasonable in my eyes – more so than the jail term. I’m not quite sure how I could justify letting someone with such contempt for the rules of the road behind a wheel again.

having been banned from driving a vehicle of any sort for six years, this individual may well struggle to be re-employed as a driver when he’s next eligible to work as one.

perhaps the law should protect us more than insurance premiums do?

FFS if insurance can see he is too great a risk why TF cant the courts

Sorts of begs the question how many folk do you need to kill before you are considered to poor to drive?
Shocking

Sorts of begs the question how many folk do you need to kill before you are considered to poor to drive?

But he’s only been proven in court to have caused one death by dangerous driving. For that offence he’s got a pretty high sentence (compared to many others that people rant on here about). Don’t blame ‘the courts’ because the prosecutors and investigators haven’t brought charges or evidence of previous offences.

As I understand it: after 6 yrs he will be entitled to reapply for a license but will need to sit an extended test, this will only reinstate his car driving rights (if he passes). He then has to ask the Traffic Commissioners to give him “HGV” rights. They will consider the relevant information in the case, and I believe are usually ‘minded to refuse’ in Death by Dangerous Driving cases, unless you convince them otherwise. In this case there would appear to be a stack of circumstantial evidence that adds to the case to refuse. So probably, in effect, a lifetime HGV ban; 6 yr car ban plus 4yr prison sentence. I think if it had been much higher then he’d have been in the appeal court claiming undue emphasis had been placed on previous matters which the courts had not found him guilty for.

he’s only been proven in court to have caused one death by dangerous driving. For that offence he’s got a pretty high sentence

with the added bits about not wearing the glasses he needed to and fiddling his tacho so he exceeded the driving time allowed by law and tried to cover it up. this ignores the previous

His behaviour showed a complete disregard for other road users safety and not for the first time. Given that I dont think he should ever be able to have licence as he cannot meet the minimum standards required.

Seriously , rather than explaining the law , are you happy he could be back on the roads one day?

Send an email to the local traffic commissioner and no doubt he/she will revoke his HGV entitlement for life.

Junkyard,

I’m certainly happy that convictions and sentences are handed out by the courts based on the evidence (with appropriate safeguards so that anecdotal information is not admissible) rather than decided on an internet forum from press reports.

As I said above its very likely that he will never get his HGV entitlement back even if in 6 yrs he manages to convince a driving examiner that he is competent to drive a car. I’m much more concerned about the people driving whilst disqualified, or without the appropriate license in the first place than the fact that in 6 yrs time a 62 yr old man might manage to pass the extended driving test and continue to drive a car; and that having spent at least 2yrs in jail (of a 4 yr term) and a 6 yr ban he will still not have learned his lesson.

But I am concerned that there are many “minor bumps” which are someone’s fault but don’t get prosecuted as “driving without due care and attention” (or other relevant offence) which mean someone can be continually careless without even totting up points that might lead to a ban. It also means the courts have less to act on regarding someone’s driving history when sentencing. You can’t blame the court for that though if it is because the police or CPS never pursue the matter.

mrmo – Member

4 years in jail, so out in two assuming he behaves himself, not really much of a punishment/deterrent is it?

Ever been in prison?

I know if it was a member of my family and had a verdict like that
I would search to find him.

Ridiculous I reckon the Judge was working cash in hand

Ever been in prison?

The relevance?

On that basis shall we just lock murderers up for couple of nights?

Is the purpose of prison punishment or deterrence? i would say both and a couple of years for two lives, not much of a deterrence for death, fiddling the tacho, failing to wear glasses etc

One life, not two. Not to diminish that but it’s interesting that you seem quite out of touch with the facts, in a thread you started.

Relevance? You’re dismissing 2 years in prison as “not much”, so the experience that leads you to do so is relevant.

mrmo – Member

On that basis shall we just lock murderers up for couple of nights?

Um. What?

he has been sentenced for killing one person, but this is the second person he has killed. So that means he has killed two people? or does 1+1 not equal 2 anymore?
He has been told he has to wear glasses he did not, so negligent, you drive on a licence, you accept the rules when you apply for that licence and by his actions he clearly has no interest in accepting those rules so why should he be given an opportunity to kill a third person?
He fiddled the Tacho, the only reason to do so is to fiddle your hours and hence drive illegally. Again showing complete contempt for the rules by which he was issued a licence.
And if we include the fact that he had been involved in at least 3 more accidents between the two deaths!

mrmo – Member
On that basis shall we just lock murderers up for couple of nights?

Um. What?

IF your suggesting prison is a horrible place then why bother locking people up, most murders are committed in the heat of the moment and very rarely are they likely to reoffend, so why do we bother locking them up?

Maybe we do what we do to demonstrate as a society that there are things that are not acceptable, like killing people? Maybe after killing two people and showing such blatant disregard for law he should not be allowed to drive ever again, maybe after killing two people being sent to jail for 4 years might be seen as a bit lenient?

From your own link: “police found no connection between her death and Mr Lopes’s driving.”

He has not been given “a couple of years for two lives” as you claim.

I’m not sure the jail term is an irrelevance. I’ve never been to prison but I’m not sure that it’s a place I’d describe as ‘irrelevant’.

“Irrelevant” in that the threat of a jail term (especially a short one) isn’t really a motivator against bad driving. No one goes out in a vehicle to kill someone accidentally but is put off by the possible jail term.

Also the families weren’t really interested in jail terms apparently – they wanted to see him taken off the roads for life (understandably) and his employer to face penalties too.

As to the other points, yes he wasn’t found responsible for Eilidh’s death but he was found to be driving with uncorrected vision which appears to have been a factor in the case too. That’s shocking. How hard is it to wear some specs FFS?

the threat of a jail term (especially a short one) isn’t really a motivator against bad driving

This has me wanting to ask you what planet you reside on.

This has me wanting to ask you what planet you reside on.

When you get behind the wheel is the threat of jail the only reason you don’t drive dangerously and run people over?
I’d say for most of the population the possibility of jail doesn’t even figure. They just genuinely don’t want to kill people.

the threat of a jail term (especially a short one) isn’t really a motivator against bad driving

totally agree for the reasons above

grantway – Member

Ridiculous I reckon the Judge was working cash in hand

Really, I recon he was following the published sentencing guidelines knowing that if he imposed something wildly different the offender would have grounds for appeal.