Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
  • Death by careless / dangerous driving
  • piedidiformaggio
    Free Member

    The lowlife shitbag that is Berry Meyer gets sentenced on Friday.

    This is what he did and what sort of person he is:
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/lorry-driver-banned-from-the-roads-five-times-admits-jumping-red-light-and-killing-cyclist-10164566.html

    He’s pleaded guilty to a charge of Death by Careless Driving. Personally I think this as clear a case of dangerous driving as you can get, no Careless. The sentencing guidelines for Death by Careless Driving would appear to be woefully short of what I would deem appropriate for this particular case.

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/causing_death_by_careless_or_inconsiderate_driving/

    So looking likely that he’ll probably get 3 years. There will be a lengthy driving ban (not that this seems to stop this parasite from driving) as well. It all seems a shocking light punishment.

    It’s all so frustratingly familiar 😥

    woody2000
    Full Member

    3 years? Doubt it 🙁

    2 years + 2 year ban (probably served concurrently so he can drive on release)

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Unlicenced and Uninsured too. What the hell do you have to do for the CPS to pursue Death by Dangerous Driving?

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Presumably they prosecute at the level of most likely conviction, rather than aiming high and increasing the risk of “losing”.

    Short of in vehicle footage where the driver can clearly be seen and heard saying something like “I’m going to run this person over and kill them”, plus a written confession witnessed by everyone in the courtroom, there’ll always be a high chance of the defence getting the driver off.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    The lowlife shitbag that is Berry Meyer

    from the info in that link I concur.
    and a +1 to all previous and future posts that mention how stupid the law is WRT road deaths and punishing (or not) truly shocking driving.

    muddy9mtb
    Full Member

    will refrain from commenting, may get arrested and thrown in jail for 5 years.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    Presumably they prosecute at the level of most likely conviction, rather than aiming high and increasing the risk of “losing”.

    I thought I read in some of the sinden/squire discussion that you could prosecute for dangerous and if it fell short still convict for careless.

    piedidiformaggio
    Free Member

    2 years + 2 year ban (probably served concurrently so he can drive on release)

    Would be utterly disgraceful

    nickjb
    Free Member

    While I don’t agree with it I can see why it would be tricky to pursue a bigger conviction for the killing someone bit (Although obviously the most tragic part). Surely the blatant disregard for the law shows he should not be behind the wheel of a car ever again and if he can’t restrain himself from doing that then he needs to be forcibly stopped, which I suppose must be prison. We still seem to treat driving as a right.

    christhetall
    Free Member

    Unlicenced and Uninsured too. What the hell do you have to do for the CPS to pursue Death by Dangerous Driving?

    Clearly the CPS do not view jumping red lights as dangerous, but merely careless

    bugcab
    Free Member

    Readying myself for a flaming here but best get the facts straight before there is outrage and indignation at his final sentence. It looks from the report as if he did jump a red light and also stop in a yellow junction box but neither of these were anything to do with the incident as they were earlier in his journey. It seems he killed Alan Neve because he failed to look properly in his mirors and had items on the dash obscuring his view so death by careless was the only realistic charge. It was however obviously habitual careless driving from someone with flagrant diregard for the law and only ended up in a guilty plea when the evidence of his past driving was ruled admissible by the judge in what was to be a contested allegation. Lets hope the Judge finds this enough justification to give him a sentence at or near the max.

    antigee
    Full Member

    bugcab – Member
    Readying myself for a flaming here but best get the facts straight….

    no flaming but think a bit selective – this is key to the standard of driving further on in the story:

    “Meyer had been following a colleague driving another tipper truck.

    Prosecutor Allison Hunter said: “Had Meyer reacted as a dynamic driver would have been expected to do, he could not fail to have seen Mr Neve.”

    not careless – wilful disregard for road rules and the safety of others as shown by past record

    bugcab
    Free Member

    Antigee I think we are saying the same thing in your first point,

    “Had Meyer reacted as a dynamic driver would have been expected to do, he could not fail to have seen Mr Neve.” ie. had he looked in his mirrors and reacted to the presence of other road users. I can see why people would want to argue that this is in itself dangerous but on the case law it would most likely fail the test falling instead in to the category of momentary inattention (opposed to driving that falls far below the standard of the careful and competent driver).

    On the second point your reference to his “wilful disregard for road rules and the safety of others as shown by past record” seems the same as my citing his “habitual careless driving” and “flagrant disregard for the law”.

    This type of habitual poor driving was to be used to assist the jury to determine whether he was guilty (the decision by the Judge to allow the previous matters to go before the jury in a trial) and will also later be relevant in sentence as an aggravating feature, ie. far from a one off incident.

    This latter point could also support an argument for the fact that the man is both generally and persistently a real danger to others when on the roads. In such circumstances the Court can revoke the “priveledge” of being allowed to ever drive again by imposing a lifetime disqualification. This is not part of the punishment but a public protection measure. This is however fairly rare and usually preserved for those who have driven “dangerously” repeatedly.

    Point of my posts is not to try to undermine the justifiable disgust that this bloke has killed someone (an event that seems bound to have happened at some point the way he drives) but to provide some insight in to the rules that the Judge and CPS are working with and avoid others feeling unduly peed off with either at the final outcome.

    My belief is that we need a fundamental overhaul of the laws and more importantly attitudes around road use but this will not be achieved by screaming for the odd scalp or undeserved criticism of those who are trying to work within it.

    piedidiformaggio
    Free Member

    To be clear here, the red light and yellow box junction transgressions were both in the few yards behind the point he ran over Alan Neve.

    Furthermore, he ran Alan Neve over from behind. He jumped the light, stopped in the box junction then moved off and drove straight over the poor victim.

    If he had stopped at the red light and if he had not proceeded into the box juntion, then it’s more than likley that Mr Neve would still be with us.

    How this is not dangerous is beyond me.

    benji
    Free Member

    Unfortunately they look at it, as being easier to get a conviction for careless than it is for dangerous. One of the rains why the death by careless charge came about, to many walking away completely free, despite having killed someone.

    fasthaggis
    Full Member

    too many walking away completely free, despite having killed someone.

    Yup ,made me think of this cretin.

    Gary McCourt was given 300 hours of community service and banned from driving for five years after being found guilty earlier this year of causing the death of Audrey Fyfe, 75, through careless driving.

    He clipped her bicycle in Edinburgh, and escaped a prison sentence despite being jailed for a similar offence 25 years earlier, when he killed 22-year-old cyclist George Dalgity through reckless driving.

    antigee
    Full Member

    bugcab – Member
    Antigee I think we are saying the same thing in your first point…….

    ………My belief is that we need a fundamental overhaul of the laws and more importantly attitudes around road use but this will not be achieved by screaming for the odd scalp or undeserved criticism of those who are trying to work within it.

    agree think I believed that in your comment you’d ignored the evidence given that Meyer was concentrating on following another truck when he ran over Alan Neve and that the consequence of this deliberate action was the cause of the cyclist’s death

    I’d rather not “scream for the odd scalp” but changes in law and the resources required to facilitate attitude change seem increasingly to be dictated by political knee jerk reactions – quite happy to hit the knee with a hammer
    pretty sure debating here won’t change much but helps form the arguments that may

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Yup ,made me think of this cretin.

    And this one:

    Joao Correia-Lopes:

    Killed 30 year old Eilidh Cairns with his truck in Feb 2009.
    Got a £200 fine and three points for driving with uncorrected defective eyesight.

    Then killed 97 year old Nora Gutmann with his truck in June 2011.
    Whilst not wearing his glasses again, and driving a lorry with a tachograph tampered with a magnet in a way that could effect the brakes.

    Only then did they decide he was guilty of Death by Dangerous Driving. He got 4 years in prison and disqualified for 6 years.

    http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/joao-lopes-sentence.html

    Why on earth do we ever allow someone like that to drive again?

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Whenever these cases crop up, someone always says “wait until we get all the facts, we should trust the jury”.

    But we NEVER get all the facts. What we do get is repeated lenient sentences which, if they didn’t involve a vehicle, you’d expect much greater punishments for. It’s the repetition that makes me think something systematic is wrong here.

    If something *isn’t* wrong with the sentencing, then something is wrong with the reporting, because a lot of people feel injustice at a lot of these decisions.

    Here’s the Squire/Sinden case mentioned above
    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/deal/news/van-driver-cleared-of-causing-33772/

    “Philip Sinden was driving the Vauxhall Vivaro that hit and killed 18-year-old triathlete Daniel Squire on the A258 at Ringwould in Kent at around 8:40am on September 7 2013.”

    “During the trial the court heard that Sinden had sent 19 texts and received 22 from his girlfriend between 6.07am and 8.32am. He and his girlfriend continued texting until she sent a message at 8.39.49. He was alleged to have composed a message at around 8.40am which was never sent.”

    He was cleared of careless and dangerous driving.

    piedidiformaggio
    Free Member

    Bit a late update, but jailed for a paltry 3 1/2 years

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32740736

    Also banned from driving for 10 years, not that the this will have any effect on someone who doesn’t give a stuff.

    Not a good outcome 🙁

    retro83
    Free Member

    piedi di formaggio – Member

    Bit a late update, but jailed for a paltry 3 1/2 years

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32740736

    Also banned from driving for 10 years, not that the this will have any effect on someone who doesn’t give a stuff.

    Not a good outcome

    FFS I’m fuming at this. The situation with the distinction between careless/dangerous driving and admitting guilt to the lesser offence to seemingly get away scott free from the greater charge badly needs reviewing right away.

    slowoldgit
    Free Member

    but this will not be achieved by screaming for the odd scalp or undeserved criticism of those who are trying to work within it.

    But who else is better placed to report upwards perceived holes in the laws? A government will say it’s down to the legal system, not them.

    sobriety
    Free Member

    Surely we should introduce a vehicular manslaughter charge – kill someone with a vehicle and it’s 5 years in prison and bye bye driving license for life.

    Then the only argument is whether or not it was delibrate.

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)

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