I see no difference between “little white lies”, “exageration” and doping.

Tell me you’re taking the p$ss? 🙄

Yes on the basis he took his punishment on the chin without whinging like Alberto, accepted the BOC decision unlike Dwayne and would simply be there for someone else’s glory not his own.

Yes he was a prat and a cheat. But equally yes he has acted with grace and dignity since then

Self confessed cheat? Yep and as cheats go that’s the good sort.

There’s good and bad cheating? How does that work?, you either cheat or you don’t and he did and will always be a cheat

and the ‘no second chances’ line doesn’t really apply in any other aspects of society so why should it in sport?

A little light reading for you.

If you’ve committed a crime are you forever a criminal?

If you’ve been involved in an affair, are you forever an adulterer?

If you’ve told a lie, are you forever a liar?

Seems a naive, black and white view to me.

Yes on the basis he took his punishment on the chin without whinging like Alberto

Apart from appealing to CAS to get his ban reduced of course.

Well as breaking the rules is cheating. WADA set the rules and we follow.

Following all their research (I think they do a bit) they have decided that lifetime bans are counter productive. 4 Years is best.

We should stick to the rules. He is eligible and no in the team.

Tell me you’re taking the p$ss?

No, we accept lying happens in so many aspects of life, massaging sales forecasts, forgetting details for clients, tweaking a CV, speeding, parking on double yellow lines, killing a cyclist whilst driving, and if someone gets caught they get a slap on the wrist.

Why should we hold sportsmen to any higher level than anyone else. Millar got caught, admitted his guilt, got his slap on the wrist now move on. If he is good enough to race then he should be allowed to.

Miller said that he would only do it if his team mates accepted him. I hope he stands by that and that they make the decision

Millear said that he would only do it if his team mates accepted him. I hope he stands by that and that they make the decision

Do you think they won’t? 😯 You’re talking about the same team-mates who were perfectly happy to work with/for him (remember he was captain on the road) in the Worlds last year.

If i was in the position to win gold like Cav is i’d not want to win it with the help of a cheat, life ban for cheaters imho. If he rides the medal is tainted

In the same way Cav’s rainbow jersey is tainted?

If you’ve committed a crime are you forever a criminal?
If you’ve been involved in an affair, are you forever an adulterer?
If you’ve told a lie, are you forever a liar?

Of course you are forever all of these obviously. that’s why if convicted you gain something called a criminal record. Do you think a person who’s partner is adulterous ever forgets it? Do you think anyone lied to ever fully trusts the liar again? Seems black and white to me.

In the same way Cav’s rainbow jersey is tainted

Exactly

If you’ve committed a crime are you forever a criminal?

Yes but you are allowed to return to society

If you’ve been involved in an affair, are you forever an adulterer?

Yes but you can move on from it

If you’ve told a lie, are you forever a liar?

Just human really

If you cheated once are you still cheating?
No?

Drug cheats should be banned for life from competition. You can “move on” by doing a normal job and riding for fun like most of us do. If you commit a firearms offence you can never again own a gun.

If you cheated once (especially in professional sport for financial gain) you’ll always be branded a cheater and rightly so

If you cheated once (especially in professional sport for financial gain) you’ll always be branded a cheater and rightly so

By you and your ilk, but not everyone.

It is only the Olympics. For a runner the biggest event going, for a cyclist, not really. How many here can name the “current” Olympic champ? If it wasn’t in some peoples back yard there wouldn’t be half the fuss. Rules are rules. If the rules say it is naughty to dope and they are stuck by then other rules also apply. Since when have rules had anything to do with what is right or common sense.
Can anyone tell me what tyres I need please? 😆

Why do we call them cheats any way but all those dozy footballers who get a red card are not labled the same way? It’s the same thing.

You guys do know that Valverde is riding for Spain, yes?

if you had read cav or wiggins books youd know that they both have fair respect for millar in light of what he did

so its highly unlikely that cav feels his rainbow stripes are tainted.

miketually – Member
I think it’s hilarious that the Olympics are still treated as though they’re a major moral force for good. Have you looked at the sponsorship list and the over-the-top policing of the trademark?

This.

By you and your ilk, but not everyone.

Those who condone cheating and turn a blind eye because there might be a win in it are worse than the cheaters, your “ilk” by the sound of it

the authorities should find a way not to select him for some other reason.

Sounds as though you’d like the authorities to cheat.

Well there are Triatheletes, Martial Artists and Shooters who have all been overlooked in favour of weaker competitors so it would have been easy not to select him

I suspect he won’t get picked anyway – highly likely to be a full team Sky line-up in my opinion and the way Froome is riding I would take him in preference….purely on form and nothing to do with the drugs issue

Don’t forget, Millar was never “caught” in the sense of being found positive – he admitted what he had done, after feeling remorse. That surely deserves a small amount of “credit”…..quite apart from the fact that he subsequently served his time and taken the stance he has in helping younger riders to come through the ranks….good luck to him; I think he’s a very classy rider.

“Don’t forget, Millar was never “caught””

Are you sure ?

I thought his flat was raided and needles etc were found.

But anyway… if you’re not cheating, your not trying.

Millar should ride. I am anti doping but perhaps one Olympic cycle is fair. It should be the same for all nations though.

What amused me about the 8 in the long list is how many were born in Britain. Belgian, Maltese, Kenyan, Canadian (? JH)and I think IoM is not British as such but have British passports.

“”Don’t forget, Millar was never “caught

I thought his flat was raided and needles etc were found. “
Caught as in not failing a test. A needle doesn’t make up a doper, as in a gun doesn’t make you a murderer. But yes but no……yes he was doping.. In a era when he fair from the only one in a culture that was very pro doping.
Also kept the needle by his bed side to remind himself of what he had done…alledgelly.

Have a look at the interview with Hoy and DB on the BBC, I don’t think they have any issues.

“What amused me about the 8 in the long list is how many were born in Britain. Belgian, Maltese, Kenyan, Canadian (? JH)and I think IoM is not British as such but have British passports.”

Yeap and a good thing in book. Acceptence of where people want to be rather than which bit of soil they were born on. Better then the serb/croata way.

Millar said that he would only do it if his team mates accepted him. I hope he stands by that and that they make the decision

Interestingly I have just read a couple of bits in the papers about this that seems to say even Cris Hoy who has always stated that he feels a life ban is right has softened his stance with the prospect of Miller being selected. I think if Hoy came out with a very strong ” miller should not be selected” stance Miller would probably drop out

Obviously I don’t know all the behind the scenes stuff but I found this interesting

could think that it’s worth the risk of taking drugs because they could test positive, come back and compete again. There should be meaningful deterrents that put people off taking drugs. It’s a shame that the bylaw has gone, but it’s gone. I’ll welcome whoever is standing next to me in Great Britain kit.”

Its also being spun both ways

London 2012 Olympics: Sir Chris Hoy uneasy over David Millar selection

p London 2012: Sir Chris Hoy backs David Millar

rOcKeTdOg – Member
Those who condone cheating and turn a blind eye because there might be a win in it are worse than the cheaters, your “ilk” by the sound of it

Where did I say that? Idiot.

The whole ‘dope, serve 4 years then come back’ suggests that being able to support yourself during the ban, whilst maintaining the level you need to be able to compete and then return at a level that is competitive whilst facing much more scrutiny (and, I imagine, outright hostility from some) is no mean feat.

I would suggest that it is incredibly difficult, and (as I have said before, more than once) having someone who has done just that standing up and saying ‘I did this, then to get back I had to do this, on the way I lost this’ is better than just writing them off.

The one strike approach that some suggest would be stupid. What if it’s a young rider, first pro level team, pressurised into it by whatever means and by whoever?

People make mistakes.

cynic-al – Member

rOcKeTdOg – Member
Those who condone cheating and turn a blind eye because there might be a win in it are worse than the cheaters, your “ilk” by the sound of it

Where did I say that? Idiot.

😀 you’ve always been able to dish it out but not take it, running out of ideas and name calling is a new low even for you Al, how childish

Not at all, you’ve sought to misrepresent me or put words in my mouth in the past, so no change there.

Again: where did I even imply I condone cheating?

too late to back pedal Al
as for

you’ve sought to misrepresent me or put words in my mouth in the past

you having a laff? you do all the damage to your forum image quite well on your own without any supposed ‘help’ from me
like drug cheaters, a known troll is always a troll, now go and play with the other children, there’s a good lad

You’ve called me pro-paedophile before, today you are telling me I condone cheating. Nothing to back it up bar calling me a troll (name calling wasn’t cool 2 posts ago? 🙄 )

I don’t really care what you think about me, I’d just prefer you not to defame me online.

‘Right you two.
You can stop this silliness right now or you can both go to bed and neither of you are going to the zoo at the weekend.
Do I make myself clear??’

He started it 😉

Those who condone cheating and turn a blind eye because there might be a win in it are worse than the cheaters, your “ilk” by the sound of it

I think al may actually be , rightly IMHO, pro redemption/rehabilitation rather than pro cheating.

Correct. No idea what I’ve said that might make that unclear.

Interestingly I have just read a couple of bits in the papers about this that seems to say even Cris Hoy who has always stated that he feels a life ban is right has softened his stance with the prospect of Miller being selected.

Sir Chris Hoy hasn’t changed his stance at all – it’s just that you misunderstood what it was (hence my shock at your suggestion that any of Millar’s team-mates might be unhappy racing with him).

I don’t condone cheating but I do support Millar to be in the team.

He has served his sentence, his sport accepts him back and so do his team mates. The top authority on drugs in sport says he is allowed back. We ask for a level playing field so lets have one all countries playing the same rules.

What more is needed?

Considering as a young man he was pressured into doing what was wide spread in the sport and has now come through that stronger and clean is credit to him.

The anti drug message comes through much stronger from the fallen and reformed than those who are still suspected or are naturally ahead of the field.