I think people need to bear in mind the world was a very different place in the ’90 and what was acceptable then, and what is acceptable now.

Not that that is true, you might have to go back earlier for that to be true. But whenever it happened, it was ‘acceptable’ because the people who were the victims were not the ones in the position to say whether or not it was acceptable.

when I first read richc’s comment I thought it was a brilliant and insightful satirical comment on the apologists for Jimmy Savile etc who said “well, he shouldn’t be prosecuted because it was a different time and people had different values about molesting children”.

So what you’re saying is its fine to grope women as long as you’re averagely anonymous.

When did I say it was fine? Another way of putting it is that if YOU had done the same thing at the same time as he did then you wouldn’t be facing the music now. (unless your’e famous)
& just to reiterate…It’s anything but ‘fine’ & as has already been said, people weren’t so bothered 20 years ago (or just didn’t speak up for whatever reasons) but they are now.

I think what Essel is saying is if a woman walked in to a police station today and said twenty years ago a man held her breast for 15 seconds in the office she worked at, and she knew who he was and where he lived.

Would the police and cps have invested as much time and resources as they did in the dlt case, or have they gone out of there way as part of a backlash for not doing anything about jimmy saville in the past.

And how many woman would have been so distressed about having there tit felt would have gone through all the hassle of this trial after twenty years if it had been Dave who works on the tills at budgens.

He could have just admitted it, done less time than the case has taken, and saved his house, but no, he decided to call all the women accusing him liars, and hire top lawyers to try and discredit all of their testimon

Eh no…you see if you had even slightly followed the case you’d know that he was up on about 13 charges in total and was found quilty of one of them, arguably the least serious.

So in fact he lost his house defending himself against allegations that the jury believed were either false or couldn’t be proven.

How does one prove beyond reasonable doubt that they had their chest groped twenty years ago?

I’ve not really followed the intricacies of the case, but that seems like an odd one to be proven true amidst a dozen other more serious charges that weren’t.

A serial groper. Why did it take almost twenty years when the victim had told two others?

Oh and to the ballsy men saying I was groped/get over it.

Ok- a big male boss in your company gropes your balls. How would you feel?

Ok- a big male boss in your company gropes your balls. How would you feel?

With the other hand ?

Rotherham anyone?

I suppose “Hairy Cornflake” is a bit snappier than “Ugly Sexpest”.

Is Gazza going to bring charges next!…

i really dont understand how ones persons word against the other can produce a verdict one way or the other. what evidence is there? is it the credibilty of the witness?
would jack nicholson have more chance of persuading a jury that he was innocent or would meryl streep be more likely to convince a jury that the “perpitrator” was guilty?

i know this isnt the same now, but how do women on the gok wan show justify allowing him to touch their breasts or pose naked, or will in years to come will they complain that they were really coerced into doing it.
if Dave lee travis was guilty, then he deserves the right sentence and if he is guilty i want him to be punished. unfortunately their is still this nagging doubt.

just a thought on fairness, what are your thoughts on this.
a man and a woman live opposite each other, neither have curtains.
if the man takes his clothes off and is naked and the woman sees him he can get done for “flashing”
if the woman takes all her clothes off and the man sees her he can done for being a “peeping tom”
funny old world

Ok- a big male boss in your company gropes your balls. How would you feel?

I’d either laugh it off or tell him to F off (depending how much of an idiot he was) and then just forget about it and get on with my life. If he did it again I’d punch him in the face and would perhaps start to look for a new job. Certainly wouldn’t harbour a bitter 20 year grudge against the man though that’s for sure. Unless he becomes famous of course as I could then probably make a serious sum money out of the situation 😉

Lester – Member

just a thought on fairness, what are your thoughts on this.

That they should get curtains and stop looking in other people’s houses?

just a thought on fairness, what are your thoughts on this.
a man and a woman live opposite each other, neither have curtains.
if the man takes his clothes off and is naked and the woman sees him he can get done for “flashing”
if the woman takes all her clothes off and the man sees her he can done for being a “peeping tom”
funny old world

To correct you, if a man WAS flashing he would be stood full frontal in the window trying to gain attention.

If a woman did the same she would be seen as potentially mentally unhinged or a bit of a slag.

The women of this world can’t win.

I’d either laugh it off or tell him to F off (depending how much of an idiot he was) and then just forget about it and get on with my life. If he did it again I’d punch him in the face and would perhaps start to look for a new job. Certainly wouldn’t harbour a bitter 20 year grudge against the man though that’s for sure. Unless he becomes famous of course as I could then probably make a serious sum money out of the situation

you are very junior, wanting to make it in your career and in a prime place to get your name heard/known. Being touched and groped by someone uninvited can be distressing. Do you think she held a grudge? OR do you think she reported it at the time- i.e. to the Producer and another but it didn’t go anywhere at the time. Fast forward shes called witness.

Don’t get offended- a serious question: Its great when a man says ‘laugh it off’. If it was your Mother groped would you tell her to get over it and move on? How about your own girlfriend or wife was groped by Pervy Pete in Accounts, would you laugh and say ‘what a lad’?

Both could be done for indecent exposure though?

It is only attitudes that are the problem, the law seems quite clear…

Both could be done for indecent exposure though?

If there is obvious intent. When you pee into a bush mid-ride, do you think you should automatically be done for indecent exposure if walkers walk by?

just a thought on fairness, what are your thoughts on this.

It’s pish and you should try harder. HTH.

If there is obvious intent. When you pee into a bush mid-ride, do you think you should automatically be done for indecent exposure if walkers walk by?

I don’t think so no. But that wasn’t really my point. I was arguing that gender shouldn’t and I don’t think it does, come into play when it comes to legal instruments of this kind…

…of course,law enforcement, judiciary, media and the public have a long way to catch up with this sentiment.

Invading someone’s personal space by squeezing parts of them is a pretty serious assult if you ask me but in this case specifically not a jailable one.

Jail? All options are open – that doesn’t mean he will be jailed.

Peyote- even if the perpetrator is a male and seen traditionally as physically stronger?

I don’t work in accounts. 😕

Best use of CPS/police/courts time? Possibly not but the public interest case would be that high profile people can’t be seen to have impunity and that time isn’t a barrier to justice.

On flashing,
When I used to run late at night I had drunken women flash there boobies at me and lift there skirts to flash their allens.
It did not bother me, if I had rang the police, would they have even bothered or laughed that I would even consider calling them.
What if a woman flashed everything at me, would that be more serious.

Breasts, were do they sit on the scale of indecency.
They are not genitals but are hardly your elbow.

Would a woman flashing her breasts be similar to me flashing my arse.

…of course,law enforcement, judiciary, media and the public have a long way to catch up with this sentiment.

do they?

even if the perpetrator is a male and seen traditionally as physically stronger?

I don’t think the law generalises based on gender, I would hope that individuals are treated as such, taking into account a whole range of issues including (but not limited to) physical size. I think that’s what the whole “aggravating factors” thing is all about. But I’m not a lawyer.

IMO there shouldn’t be any assumption based on gender, and I believe the law (as it is written, if not enacted) agrees with this.

do they?

Are you really saying that misogyny isn’t alive and kicking in society? I think it is.

How about your own girlfriend or wife was groped by Pervy Pete in Accounts, would you laugh and say ‘what a lad’?

I wouldn’t be particularly pleased and would probably go and have a word with him one to one, but calling the police and pressing charges, really? Sledgehammer to crack a walnut springs to mind.

When Mrs INVG was a House Officer the Senior Registrar grabbed her from behind during a ward round. She responded by taking a step back and applying all her weight on to the top his foot through her stiletto heel. Once the ensuing scream had attracted everyone’s attention, including the Consultant leading the ward round, she said. ‘Would you mind not grabbing my breasts Dr so-and-so, I found it rather unpleasant’. That, as they say, settled his hash. I accept that you have to be pretty self-confident to do it..

i know this isnt the same now, but how do women on the gok wan show justify allowing him to touch their breasts or pose naked, or will in years to come will they complain that they were really coerced into doing it.

Context. 🙄

and would probably go and have a word with him one to one

How badly wrong could that go? Your partner has been physically assaulted and you would keep your cool depending on how he talks to you/responds?

Best use of CPS/police/courts time? Possibly not but the public interest case would be that high profile people can’t be seen to have impunity and that time isn’t a barrier to justice.

He was being charged on multiple counts with different alleged victims.

If my partner was groped/grabbed and she was very distressed I’d be ringing up HR for a meeting with a view to calling in the Police.

Or should I say ‘pull yourself together luv, this is the noughties not the future when things will be seen as different’?

gok wan

I really do think hes a dark horse. Hes either doing it to titillate and surprise or he really is upto something!

Or should I say ‘pull yourself together luv, this is the noughties not the future when things will be seen as different’?

No, didn’t make myself really clear, I think there might have been vicitims of more heinous crimes, not perpetrated by minor celebrities, that would have had their cases bumped as resource wasn’t available

Not saying the vitims of DLT are less deserving of justice but the CPS makes judgements about resources all the time and were it not for the media interest I doubt these offences would have had priority. Not saying its right, just a fact of life.

The victims- exactly. The CPS decided to prosecute on more than one case with him.

But only secured a conviction on one of the (arguably) lesser charges. Pretty high risk from the CPS’s point of view. Anyhoo, the guys a creep and got what he deserved. Job jobbed.

Shirley the point is that quite a few folk did suffer from more heinous crimes at the hands of a certain BBC DJ and he is now dead so in effect got away with it. It was a pretty extreme case.

With that in mind, I guess the thinking is that they go after these folks now, so that these people don’t think that they are above the law in the future?

Rightly or wrongly, I suspect that is probably influencing the decisions as to whether or not to press on?

rebel12 – Member

Sledgehammer to crack a walnut springs to mind.

Bit extreme that, for a first offence.

Are you really saying that misogyny isn’t alive and kicking in society? I think it is.

hold on – are you saying that men are hard done by or the opposite?

things are better now than they were. Still not great, but much better than it was.

Really? Cos I’ve been cat called, had my breasts touched up, and my bum. In clubs bars on the bus, walking down the street you name it. casual sexism is alive and well. Thing is this bloke refused to admit that what he did was wrong, and equality starts with showing people that even after 20 years you’re still going to be punished for it.