I've done this route a few times and – despite the road work – love it. Now I always take grades with a pinch of salt but as an (ex) climber it's in my blood to debate them 😀

So, does anyone else think the "red" descent down the Causeway – loose, rocky, hard to find a line and insecure – is harder than the "black" descent into Blacka Plantation? I reckon the direct descent to the Plantation car park is in some ways easier too. I aren't go as fast as I want on the Causeway, particularly the section at the bottom where it flattens out a bit but is like riding on marbles

No – the plantation descent is harder and better. The causeway is easy bar the middle section where you need to stay high

What about Blacka Plantation? All you need to remember on that is not to get carried away with your speed – in itself quite hard 🙂
Surely you don't think that is harder than the Causeway?

The hard bit is speed control – too slow and its shit, too fast and off the side!

Agree with the OP.

Or not… sort of. If you've got enough travel and can keep the speed up you can just blat down the Causeway whereas the Plantation always requires technique.

If it goes wrong on the Causeway it's likely to go badly wrong. My only off on either route was on the Causeway. I still don't know quite waht happened. Was hammering down it and next thing I know I was off the bike, in the air, landed, had time to think "that could have hurt more than it did" then the bike plummeted from the heavens and gave me the mutha of all deadlegs.

Personally I enjoy the Plantation more.

Plantation for me, just because the causeway is a balls out blam & hope for the best. Trying to choose a line is optional.

Plantation requires finesse, and has options and technical difficulties all the way down.

Anyone going to comment on the main bit of the OP? I.e. the comparison with the Blacka Plantation descent (not the Stanage Plantation)? Great fun, easy to go too fast but not a black if Causeway is a red

(just re-read my OP…it is a bit confusing)

Anyone going to comment on the main bit of the OP?

I thought I already had.

Actually, the few places I've seen it attempted, grading natural trails just doesn't work for me. They change too much over time. I appreciate grading when I'm skiing or riding trail centres but generally ignore someone else's view of a bit of normal trail.

what exactly is the blacka plantation descent?

it almost certainly has another more widely used name

FWIW the causeway changes so regularly with the effects of rain and the number of 4WDs and motorbikes that have been up and down it that it could change between a red or a black on a bi-annual basis.

what exactly is the blacka plantation descent?

it almost certainly has another more widely used name

Some people call it the 'packhorse route'

Maybe we could grade the Packhorse descent "grey" and the causeway route "yellow"?

No, thats not the Blacka Plantation, thats the optional route in the V Graphics Dark Peak Stanage Route towards the Plantation (Stanage).

There are 3 viable descents on Blacka Moor/Plantation that I am aware of. Can't remember which one is listed in the Dark Peak guide.

In regards to OP by stilltortoise If Stanage Causeway is a red then the Blacka Moor/Plantation descents would generally be classed the same although the descent from Piper House Gate into the Plantation towards the ford is much more technical than the most common descent which takes you over the two drop offs prior to the ford.

by Blaka Plantation do you mean aka. Blaka Moor or Door Drops?

In which case I'd say Packhorse/Plantations is more technical, Dore Drops are mainly flat out, trust your tires kinda decents, with the odd rock garden and deceptive line choice (anyone else get caught out by the drainage ditch ont he RHS every time despite knowing its there?) thrown in to catch out the non-locals. Then again I prefer the one with the gate halfway down rather than the one with the rock gardens.

The causeway, technical? Only if you make a deliberately hard line choice, otherwise its just a case of learning the lines through the boulders.

Blacka Plantation is off Blacka Moor – the above photo is off Stanage.

No, thats not the Blacka Plantation…

Ah yes, I seem to have read the whole thread without seeing the word 'Blacka'. Ooops.

Like KoB I'm not sure which way the VG route goes. If it's the one straight on from the gate then that's the one I enjoy the most. It's very different to Stanage Causeway – I'm not sure there's a value in comparing them by coloured grading.

Just checked the book. The Blacka route is the most common that takes in dore drops near the ford. This is classed as blue mudium in the book.

the Stanage causeway is red (and crap IMHO) and the broken path in front of the cliff face is black (which is great but not sure if its worth all those road miles, maybe in winter).

As higgo and thisis stated there is the odd bit that could catch you out but generally its fast, fast and faster and trust in your tyres (o and remember the gate that they put in half way down before the drops).

The better and more technical descent is piper house gate which I believe is listed as the black graded climb in the v graphics blacka route.

Devils elbow when ridden flat out at Blacka can deffinately get scary . One of the best Peak descents infact.

The one before is better si – go along devils elbow at the top weaving bit and hook a right half way along – far better

there

God i hate climbers and their constant arguing about grades and which guidebook said what and "that was MUCH harder than an E1". Just **** climb it, or don't.

Never mind about Blacka which is quite different to Stanage and probably depends quite a lot on the amount of mud, but just the two ways down from Stanage seem to marked the wrong way to me.

The way down to the plantation car park is marked a black, and fair enough as the top section is very hard, I've never done the whole thing cleanly. The causeway though is just impossible, I don't see that it's rideable at all in the middle section of boulders. I guess this is due to erosion from all those 4×4 vehicles, but above some of you are claiming that you can just "blam down it"?

Is it 'cos I is riding a hardtail?

Just **** climb it, or don't.

Part of the fun of the whole climbing scene is arguing about grades, so don't knock it Finbar 😀 On a serious note, the last thing I want to do is find myself halfway up a "HVS" and find it more akin to an E3. You can't just get off and push on a rock climb

Back to the biking, I think one or two people have hit the nail on the head with the Causeway descent. It moves and shifts with the seasons and the 4 x 4s so one day will be harder than another. Makes sense

I don't see that it's rideable at all in the middle section of boulders.

This bit I find OK – on a HT and a full susser – the line is there. It's the marble run nearer the bottom that I find insecure.

Rob – I think the sections in the middle descent are good, but its too short and then flattens out into a gravel track, but you may like that kind of thing 🙂

Causeway is challenging due to the 'Babies head' size rocks which are best handled at speed. The middle rocky section depends on line choice, either left or right, however straight down the middle may be a goer.

Plantation is technically more difficult but once past that hairpin (which is quite easy once you've done it) its a case of holding on and controlling speed.

As the causeway is longer and rougher, I'd say its harder overall than the Stanage plantation.

Blacka Plantation (assuming you mean from Devils Elbow) is good, but not that difficult.

I think the problem with the grades are that most of the routes in the books require a degree of skill to get down cleanly and when you compare them all with one another there is little difference to differentiate them.

There are probably only 2 or 3 proper black (or should they be double black?) descents – Cavedale springs to mind.

Disagree Rob. Miss the best section of the top singletrack and that is just steep and not overly difficult as most can be cleared in the air.

I love plantation, just don't be cocky on it…