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Dangerous and Reckless Cycling (Offences) FYI
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Posted 1 year ago #
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I'm lazy - what's the precis?
Posted 1 year ago # -
slightly exaggerated (allegedly) tales of cyclists running people over and not receiving adequate fines. Argument that cyclists should be treated same as motorists if they kill or maim people whilst cycling (and are proven to be at fault), brief argument about how law is out of date and relates to horse carriages.
Posted 1 year ago # -
That's great, but as the various analogous dangerous driving acts seem to be rarely applied*, especially when a cyclist is hit by a car, is there much point?
*Or at least, using the somewhat biased STW forum as a sample size
Posted 1 year ago # -
The penalties for dangerous or careless driving for motorists are as they should be-very strict.
Leaving aside the fact that penalties cannot be strict, the law is not strict and the penalties are not harsh.We should just imagine what would happen if a motorist drove on to a pavement and killed a teenager. If the driver had walked away with only a fine, there would have been a national outcry.
Motorists kill about 300 cyclists and pedestrians a year. There is no national outcry.His bicycle was worth an estimated £6,000...
Why is this relevant ? Why doesn't the cost of cars involved in fatal accidents get mentioned ?Posted 1 year ago # -
IIRC the case mentioned the cyclist was not to blame - he was avoiding a bunch of drunk teenagers who were playing chicken with him - duff legal advice got him convicted.
Posted 1 year ago # -
duff legal advice got him convicted
Although shouting 'Get out of the way I'm not stopping' just before he killed someone didn't help his case that he took reasonable steps to avoid an accident.
Posted 1 year ago # -
On the same day it happened a lorry driver recieved a tiny fine for killing a cyclist too. Theres more info on road.cc. The cyclist wasn't even on the pavement either, and stayed round to put the girl in the recovery position and stayed until the ambulance/police arrived.
All the mis-reporting seems to have been treated as fact in that link!
very frustrating, even if it does come to nothingPosted 1 year ago # -
He thought they were trying to knock him off the bike. He didn't kill them - their fall killed them.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sounds like a few emails to the Andrea Leadsom asking if she stands by her description of events might be in order..
Posted 1 year ago # -
He didn't kill them - their fall killed them
This is almost as bad as Clarkson proclaiming tongue in cheek that speed doesn't kill, but the sudden stop does...
Posted 1 year ago # -
He didn't kill them - their fall killed them
I'm not getting an argument on semantics TJ - if I push someone off a bridge I can't claim 'the fall killed them' and expect to get away with it.
He'd had problems with them before, he got angry and decided to call their bluff, it went wrong and someone got hurt.
He could have chosen to get off and walk around them if he thought he was in danger of getting pushed over but he went for 'full pelt and hope they get out the way'. Most of them did.
Highlighting other areas of poor law doesn't detract from the fact there there are relatively few sanctions available for dealing with cyclists who cause accidents/jump lights/etc.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Early Day Motion
Fine £2,200 for dangerous cycling - causing death
Bike worth £6000
Posted 1 year ago # -
Why is this relevant ? Why doesn't the cost of cars involved in fatal accidents get mentioned ?
It does. Especially when celebs or footballers are driving, but even when it's just a rich twit showing off in a Porsche.
Just saying because I've looked the prices up myself in order to print them before.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Early Day Motion
Fine £2,200 for dangerous cycling - causing death
Bike worth £6000
C'mon TS! If someone accidentally kills a pedestrian in a Bugatti Veyron should they have to do 100x the penalty of a driver who kills someone in a Fiesta?
Highlighting other areas of poor law doesn't detract from the fact there there are relatively few sanctions available for dealing with cyclists who cause accidents/jump lights/etc.
Nope, but highlighting the fact that analogous laws are rarely applied to motorists does have some credence when suggesting that they should be brought in for cyclists.
What happens if you run into someone accidentally, knock them over and they bang their head. Is that death by reckless perambulation?
Posted 1 year ago # -
zokes - if I run at someone shouting 'get out of the way!', they don't and subsequent die of their injuries then I'd expect to get done for assualt/manslaughter.
The problem is that because you're in a car/on a bike it's more difficult to convict of assault which is why reckless/gdangerous driving is a separate offence,
Posted 1 year ago # -
Apologies Zokes - started the response to poster 2: then got way layed
But yes that's the response I expected - this is a dreadful accident but seriously what do motorists in the same situation get hit with?
Does this mean we would be better cycling on something pulled out of a skip?!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Whilst something should probably done to update furious cycling laws the car stuff needs to be sorted first. Death by cars numbers are staggering, death by bike I beleive are in the region of 1 a year.
There are seperate charges for careless/dangerous driving but the more serious charges don't get used too often it seems and plenty of drivers manage to kill people and get let off with a fine.Posted 1 year ago # -
I wouldn't have an objection to having the existing "dangerous driving" etc laws rewritten to cover dangerous use of a vehicle where vehicle means bike, Segway, whatever.
However...
if I run at someone shouting 'get out of the way!', they don't and subsequent die of their injuries then I'd expect to get done for assualt/manslaughter.
The problem is that because you're in a car/on a bike it's more difficult to convict of assault which is why reckless/gdangerous driving is a separate offence,
The cyclist referred to in the debate could have been charged with manslaughter but he wasn't. I suspect the reason the CPS didn't (they wouldn't be able to make it stick through either intent or gross negligence) would also be the same reason the guy in question would be unlikely to have been convicted by any dangerous driving law.
Death by dangerous driving only exists as an offence because juries weren't convicting drivers of manslaughter because they didn't like "blaming" someone for "accidents".
Posted 1 year ago # -
Death by dangerous driving only exists as an offence because juries weren't convicting drivers of manslaughter because they didn't like "blaming" someone for "accidents".
I've heard this said before, everyone drives so in the back of their mind is "that could have been me driving" not so many people cycle, I can imagine the % of cyclists getting done for dangerous whatever being higher than drivers.thats assuming dangerous cycling laws are brought in and cyclists start killing people on the same scale as drivers.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think 'dangerous cycling' laws are some way off; however what is worrying is the possibility of a public attitude that seeks to prosecute the cycling minority rather than actively promote it!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Posted 1 year ago #
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same fine as drivers eh? in that case the guy who cycled into rhiannon is in need of a refund.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1033754/Lorry-driver-killed-cyclist-walks-free-court-ludicrous-275-fine.htmlPosted 1 year ago # -
He could have chosen to get off and walk around them if he thought he was in danger of getting pushed over but he went for 'full pelt and hope they get out the way'. Most of them did.
Utter crap spouted again there was. If you read up on it, you will find that the reality is a bit different from your imagining. The kids had been on an all day end of term piss up in a local park, and were baiting the guy, by dodging about in the road. The girl who got hit staggered back off the foot path into his path, and the evidence suggests that he probably bunnyhopped onto the footpath in an attmept to avoid her.
Besides I don't know about you, but on my ridiculously expensive MTB I can stop in a bike length and under control when riding on a flat and level road pretty much regardless of speed, all of which does imply that the guy was in full control and was in fact treated ridiculously poorly. As that does tend to reflect the lot of cyclists generally when court cases occur I choose to accept that it is in all liklihood what happened.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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