Adam’s two-year-old daughter Rumer has late-stage cancer, but he is being kept away from his little girl after being charged with drug offences

Article here

What are your thoughts on this..? The article suggests that medical cannabis is above board in some parts of the world, suggesting that research has proved conclusive..

Is anyone here familiar with the topic or follow any of the research..?

wtf? Now look. Must be these onions I’m cooking

if that man loses his daughter I expect there won’t be much else left to lose in his mind ,desperation is a funny thing but if it works then **** the laws of the land

Is she dying? Not what the text of the article says. Either that or the headline is misleading..

If it was for entirely palliative reasons I could be more sympathetic, but if she’s on an active chemotherapy regime, dropping another active ingredient into the mix without the knowledge of her medical team is a bit of a leap.

I doubt there’s any compelling evidence on the benefits of cannabinoids, let alone the cocktail that is cannabis oil, in stage 4 neuroblastoma in 2-year-olds. Dunno how he’s worked out the ‘right’ dose for her either.

Who knows what has caused her seizures, but I wouldn’t want to completely exonerate the after-effects of withdrawal from dad’s miracle treatment.

Sympathetic on the bail issue. Cops perhaps thought he seemed determined to re-dose her at the earliest opportunity.

Utterly ridiculous.
If he’d tried to ‘treat’ her with nonsensical bollocks like homeopathy it wouldn’t be a news story but by using something that may have actually helped he’s treated like a criminal.
Absolute insanity.

Is she dying?

the staging doesn’t go much beyond 4 its completely heart wrenching just reading up on it .

I agree, it doesn’t look great. And if this is a purely palliative measure, I can see how it might be tempting if you were that desperate.

The numb nuts taking action against him should be sent to the IS. 😡

Tough one tbh
He is giving her a drug, with the best of intentions, but he is still giving her a drug that he is not qualified to do and I find his “miracle” claim less than convincing. One of those where you have a parent giving an non conventional treatment to a child that could be potentially dangerous and may have been in this case.
there are report it works well for chemo patients but i do not know how well researched these are tbh
He should of course be allowed supervised access to her as anything less than this [ or sentencing before she has recovered/ died] is heartless…completely and utterly heartless.
My heart goes out to him that they have done this to him

MMMM not really sure what I think beyond he should be able to see her

How did he know how much to give her?

It must be really hard not to try everything possible to help your child, but possesion is possesion and he must have know what might happen if caught.

It used to be a class A drug when I lived in Edinburgh about 15 years ago.

A friend of a friend got in trouble for havin some found out it was the same Class as cocaine and heroin. Same FoaF mixed some with a mug of hot milk and made a oily coffee. Then went to The Venue to watch Firehose, he was “melted”

I am immediately reminded of the story of Sydney Norton, who committed a crime when he killed his very poorly wife, but after due legal process where all the circumstances and motivation could be considered and discussed at great length, he received a suspended sentence and walked out of court.

Perhaps influenced by this, my feeling is that the legal process should take it’s course, as that is the best place to independently assess his actions.

In the meantime, it is inhumane to them both keep him from his daughter. Ok, the authorities have a duty of care to her, but it would not be hard to give them lots of time together and fulfill that duty.

I assume she was receiving medical treatment so his claim the oil caused an improvement is a little questionable . As above it is not the safest thing to throw “daddy’s little pick me up ” into her treatment plan without the knowledge or consent of the qualified medics. Harsh to impose bail conditions to keep them apart . I wonder on the mothers role and views on this ? My made up guess is she is anti and informed the police and asked for the bail condition.

There has been a lot of research done on the subject AFAIK, and as said, it’s perfectly legal now in some countries/states..
I was looking for someone to point me in the direction of some science

I’m not sure that making totally speculative assumptions based on our personal preconceptions and prejudices is very useful to the discussion at all..

Although nothing is yet proven as to the real benefits and risks, it seems that Cancer Research UK is taking the potential effects of cannabinoids pretty seriously. Coupled with a few media reports of cannabis oil being a ‘miracle cure’, who can really blame a dad for trying everything he can to help his dying daughter? Give the bloke a break

Cancer Research UK

Stage 4 cancer (distant spread), the focus, certainly for the close family, is to ensure the patient has the best quality of life possible for as long as possible. If medical Marijuana offers this, then it is an absolute no brainer. Those close to people dying from cancer often feel powerless (I did) and if there is research that supports a drug that is not being used, you have only a small number of options: get on a trial, get private care in a different country if you can afford it, supplement the drug regime..

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/08/23/20-medical-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-cure-cancer/.
Seems to be quite a few links from here to various studies, I’ve not read them myself but there does seem to be a growing amount of noise regarding it. Im not quite sure what to believe at the mo.

I don’t usually jump in on these threads but what the hell, there is so much crap talked about this subject that it boils my piss so here goes…..

I was involved in the early testing of Cannabinoids (ultimately sativex) run by GW Pharmaceuticals, back in 1991 i had a severe spinal injury and one of the perks 😉 of such an injury was the use of cannabis in the spinal rehabilitation unit i was in, it was used to mitigate pain/nerve pain, as an aid to bladder control and to control spontaneous muscle spasms – and in a round about way as an incentive to push yourself to total exhaustion when doing rehabilitative physio sessions as we got to use the vaporiser afterwards which led to all sorts of he-haw laughter and japes, especially whilst still in the wheelchairs.

As an aside to that i got involved in further clinical trials and eventually i started to grow/develop my own strains hydroponically, which eventually led to a fully plc data logged controlled system that had control over humidity/temperature/vapour pressure/co2 injection/lighting cycle/feeding cycle/peristaltic pumps – quite an advanced set-up even for hydroponics and 50% of my crop used to be donated to the Medical Marijuana co-op who under the direct involvement of a few Doctors decided on where the bet use of the Cannabis and to whom it was given FOC such as cancer patients, chemotherapy patients spinal cord damage patients, glaucoma, anorexia treatment, neurological pain relief etc.

I prepared the Cannabis in a variety of ways, to express a oil tincture suitable for ingestion was quite easy once you had the equipment, i also made a very-very high grade of solid/hash from the buds using the water extraction/bubblebag method (my fav as it was 😯 ).

I never hid what i did which prob led to being visited by the Drug squad a fair few times and dragged through the court system but i was able to argue and represent myself as i had more factual knowledge (and the professors and medical research to stand alongside me) with regard to cannabinoids and how/why they acted on receptors in the brain. That eventually led to being called as an expert testimonial witness in many court cases of cannabis home production by others claiming a similar situation of medical necessity.

These days i no longer grow but i still keep in touch with all the medical professionals/researchers etc as it is a fascinating subject/hobby and i live in hope that one day soon it will be legal – and i’ll start up again, i grew the absolute best (even if i do say so myself 8) )

So speaking from what i previously have known, and from what i have learned from those currently doing clinical research the case for legitimate use of Cannabinoids, whether that be oils/hash/bud/tinctures etc is so clear cut as to be utterly stupefying as to why it is still illegal for medical use or rather i know why it is still illegal but that’s an entirely different argument, i could go on but i’m getting bored as you either fall into one of two camps on such an issue as this…….yes it should be allowed or no it should not.

Here’s a pic of an average bud, size of a wine bottle – this was a stable F1 indica hybrid from two indica parents whose lineage was known and bred for a high CBD content, low THC content.

😯
indeed.

Damn, getting the munchies just looking at soma’s photo! 😯

Interesting post somafunk.

I like a smoke occasionally, and I’d love to be able to grow my own to specific cannabinoid ratios. Over the years I’ve come to realise that I prefer certain strains, which I’m guessing are high in CBD. A lot of the usual skunky crackweed around generally makes me anxious. Which means I don’t smoke as often as I’d like.

I can’t read the story about the little girl, it’s too heartbreaking. But in related news, I was talking to someone in the pub recently who was of the opinion that the powers that be are getting a bit desperate and punitive with sentencing/policing over drugs etc. as they slowly realise the war on drugs is lost. Kind of like the final death-throes of a crazy old man.

Not sure about that, but I was reading somewhere about new ‘drugalyzer’ mouth-swab test kits that police can use to test if drivers are baked. Fair enough that drivers shouldn’t be high/drunk etc, but doesn’t Cannabis stay in your system for weeks? How do they know whether you’re unfit to drive? And also, what’s to stop them sneakily collecting DNA with those swabs?

Anyway, I digress. To be honest, I’m surprised the police have time to be chasing medicinal herb-enthusiasts these days when there’s so many naughty terrorists around…

I was talking yesterday to a lad who had an interview/test to join the prison service next week. He’d been told it stays in your system for 3 weeks.

Happy daze.

I was involved in the early testing of Cannabinoids

I have to ask, as someone who appears to know what they’re talking about, how do you feel about the guy in the OP giving an uncontrolled dose to a 2-year old?

I know very little about this stuff if I’m honest.

Cougar – as an aside and not meaning to sound contentious

have you ever used cannabis?
do you have children?

I’m a very over protective father and I’m not at all keen on the negative side effects of cannabis having experienced them extensively first hand, but I think I would have very few qualms about my child using it under those circumstances if I believed it had been shown to be beneficial

The problem I find the research and the findings tend to cancel one-another out – I end up none the wiser 😉

I would keep a diary, but it would probably just say “The smell of petroleum prevails throughout”

would have very few qualms about my child using it under those circumstances if I believed it had been shown to be beneficial

Problem is you thinking it had been shown and it actually been show are two completely different things

See homoeopathy – or Jivehoney thread for examples of the false positive syndrome

There is not a parent who would not try to save their child even if their actions are clutching at straws, misinformed, helpful or potentially dangerous or a combination there of.

I would like to take a bet that he done a hell of a lot of research on the subject before he administered the drug

Cougar : I sure the father has read or is aware of the increasing number of published/peer reviewed and validated research papers that show the positive of treating cancer cells (neuroblastoma in this case) with cannabinoids, the problem there is in extrapolating that data into a simple take this – you’ll be cured scenario is the current evidence shows that there are many compounds in the cannabis plant that have a detrimental effect on cancer cells, such as reducing their ability to grow, mutate and develop into problematic tumours, some cancerous cells even show a complete Autophagic response to being treated (means the cells autodestruct completely).

If it was my child then i would absolutely no qualms about attempting treatment, there is no recorded LD50 dose for cannabinoids nor for cannabis use – compared to the LD50 dose with regard to current treatments for such a condition as neuroblastoma it is a no brainer so to speak.

Without raking through masses of saved web pages and papers i believe (my memory..not what it once was eh? 😉 ) there have been around 8 compounds identified so far that have a genuine and positive effect for the successful treatment for cancerous cells/tumours, Your body/my body/every body’s body has Cannabinoid receptor cells such as CB1, CB2, GP55 etc…at it’s most basic these receptor cells are like keyholes for the various cannabinoids in cannabis and if one key is turned then that allows the next to be turned and so on.

It’s early days yet but it does look very promising, i have absolute faith that further research involving the cannabis plant will allow us to make a breakthrough in treating cancer cells the likes of which have not been seen so far in 50+ years of research.

And as for those swab kits that test for cannabis?, I’m aware of them but as for how accurate they can measure the amount in your system is very questionable indeed, it is true that cannabinoids can stay in your system for up to 6 weeks but everyone reacts differently to a specific dose. A very irregular user may take a joint and show a high reading many days after ingesting but a heavy user (i used to be quite heavy – an oz a week of very high cbd/thc content was easy to do, i could do that in my sleep) will have built up a tolerance so the results will be skewed.

It’s not for everyone that’s for sure, some people have a natural predisposition to abusing cannabinoids, some people can take it and leave it without a worry and for sure children should not take the drug, nor any drug come to think of it – (alcohol has been proven to be the most harmful) but that’s another discussion. We need to reform all our drug laws so we can be speak out and be truthful with regard to the possible consequences of ingesting but this government just will not listen to the experts, not even their own elected bodies that are set up to investigate and report on such matters.

Anyway…time for tea now, had a cracking bike run this afternoon in a glorious cloud free blue sky over frosty puddles so all is well in my world.

A few comments from a clinical research perspective. There is a huge difference between findings in vitro (i.e. cancer cells in a test tube) and findings in vivo (i.e. patients). Sure, you start in the lab but it’s not real evidence for treating patients (unless part of a trial) until you have robust results in people. Even then you need a big enough population for the results to have any statistical validity. The studies in that summary linked above look to be either in vitro or very small groups. That’s not to say they’re bad studies, and that sort of work is an essential precursor to large-scale studies, but too many drugs have looked promising yet failed in later phases for it to be safe to assume anything. It all does look very promising, but it seems to still be at a relatively early stage. Let’s hope the knee-jerk “drugs are bad, m’kay” attitude doesn’t throw a spanner in the works.