Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 72 total)
  • cycle-to-work – company has just stopped doing it after 8 years
  • MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    Grrrrrr – to put it mildly.

    The company has been growing & taken over recently.

    Too much hastle for the corporate accountant who now runs the company.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Cheaper to buy in sales anyhow

    mboy
    Free Member

    Cheaper to buy in sales anyhow

    Not if you want anything under 2 years old! Saving 35% off a brand new model bike is not to be sniffed at.

    Then there’s the fact you pay for it monthly out of your wages, where you don’t notice it, but you do notice paying £1k out as a big lump…

    Then there’s the fact you’re helping support a local bike shop, not an Internet warehouse…

    etc…

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    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    Update – Just emailed two of the MD & ANO & one said ‘News to me’ so perhaps I will be lucky.

    Unfortunately the accountant chappy is on holiday.

    BTW – We do Cycle-to-work – direct to the shops so the LBS that you buy from just sees it as a credit card purchase & is not affected by the tax dodging – WinWin.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Then there’s the fact you’re helping support a local bike shop, not an Internet warehouse…

    says who ? halfords muscled in on the cycle to work so with many multinationals you have the choice to go to halfords or rob the profit from your local bike shop that pays halfords more than C2W for the privaledge…..

    Who will buy all the boardman bikes now !!!!!

    think of the children.

    I considered the pros and cons of buying my next bike through the c2w like i did with my last one…. personally i hate paying for shit monthly , i hate being limited on which bikes i can have – as the “we can get any bike line” is a load of shit and i like not being tied to the company in times of uncertainty…..

    so i bought with cash at an LBS

    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    trail-rat – wires crossed there – as I said above our company did (maybe does) do it the direct way, so it is just a credit card purchase to the shop not using any of these C2W con companies.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    ah excellent for your local shop 😀 …. but my point still stands – not all C2W is a boon for the local bike shop.

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    At least 2 of my local bike shops wouldn’t still be open if it wasn’t for Cycle to work scheme.

    I’ve had 4 bikes over the years from work, but decided I wasn’t going to do it again, as you say TR, I don’t really like paying for things monthly. Then I moved to a new company, and now have access to bikes up to 3.5K! Aarghh! 😆

    thepodge
    Free Member

    Interest free credit card and buying something in the sales is almost as cheap

    benp1
    Full Member

    I’m using the (Halfrauds) C2W scheme for my next bike, from a proper little independent bike shop (Bikefix). Without it they wouldn’t have got the sale. I’m sure they’ll make less margin with a C2W purchase, but it’s still better than zero

    The only reason C2W is a problem is the £1k limit is a bit restricting. There was no limit at my last company

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Bike shops make very little margin on C2W sales, especially as the larger scheme operators take 10-15% of the RRP as their commission. C2W sales might put the shop in a position to negotiate a better overall margin from the distributor though (but only a few %).

    There’s a theory that each bike sale will result in some follow-on business but (a) there’s the “STW” types that avoid LBS where possible (b) those that are just adding another bike to their collection and (c) those that get the bike, put it in the garage and then never ride the thing.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “but it’s still better than zero”

    I hate that saying – there are associated costs with selling a bike over and above that of actually selling the bike – along with the time spent not doing more profitable activities – you might find a shop makes a loss on C2W sales depending on the administrator.

    with some C2W schemes your pretty much reliant on repeat custom to make profit from C2W …..

    Drac
    Full Member

    c) those that get the bike, put it in the garage and then never ride the thing.

    Shit! He’s on to me.

    bails
    Full Member

    Saving 35% off a brand new model bike is not to be sniffed at.

    Don’t you mean “Paying 65% of the full value of a bike to lease it for one year and own exactly 0% of it”? 😉

    thenorthwind
    Full Member

    I’ve never bought through C2W and don’t know much about it, hence this cut being taken by middlemen who administer the scheme is news to me. How sad that a tax break for making a positive lifestyle choice and that could benefit small local businesses to boot if set up right, has been “privatised” for the benefit of pen pushers.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    Unless you’re a higher rate earner, 35% is optimistic at best.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    The tax break also (unfairly) most benefits higher rate tax payers – those that least need the saving.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    How sad that a tax break for making a positive lifestyle choice and that could benefit small local businesses to boot if set up right, has been “privatised” for the benefit of pen pushers.

    Only because many accounts departments don’t bother administering it themselves, which they are totally free to do if they wish.

    It’s not hugely complicated for an employer. Just another salary sacrifice scheme.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    @benp1 The £1K limit comes from the Consumer Credit Act not the C2W scheme. For a company to offer credit (which this scheme is) over £1K then they need a Consumer Credit Licence. In practice this tends to be financial companies and companies who deal in large consumer items such as (for example) furniture where a showroom purchase is likely to be over that amount.

    For those of us who already bike £1K seems like a low limit but to most people £1K is a very expensive bike.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    £1k is certainly adequate for a getting a bike to Cycle To Work.

    hairylegs
    Free Member

    Being an Accountant I can’t see why the C2W scheme is so misunderstood by some. Just think of it as £1,000 interest AND TAX free loan. Okay, so the LBS take a hit for the admin of the scheme and won’t discount or offer the scheme on sale bikes but that doesn’t affect the financial effectiveness to you, the buyer.
    If, like I did, you go for a bike >£1K with some persuasion the LBS should discount on the difference. I bought a bike for £1,600 the first £1,000 on C2W which effectively cost me £780, and then got 10% off the remaining £600 so paid £1,320 in total for the bike. Around about 17.5% discount off the bike of my choice ain’t too bad a deal. Okay you might be lucky and pick that up in some sales in which case interest free credit card would work just as well but then it’s lick of the draw to get the size/specs that you want

    whitestone
    Free Member

    £1k is certainly adequate for a getting a bike to Cycle To Work.

    Indeed -I bought (with my own cash, not on a C2W scheme) a brand new 2016 Genesis Croix de Fer for £900. More than good enough for commuting, in fact it’s good enough that I’ve used it for all my road riding this winter. Head to Decathalon or Halfords and you’ll pick up a decent bike for commuting for £500

    bails
    Full Member

    Being an Accountant I can’t see why the C2W scheme is so misunderstood by some. Just think of it as £1,000 interest AND TAX free loan

    As an accountant surely you know that after paying the “loan” off you don’t own the bike. It still belongs to your employer. You can pay ~50% of the original value of it to purchase it, or you can pay to keep leasing it and still not own it for another three years.

    benp1
    Full Member

    @whitestone – I know, that’s why the limit was removed at my last company (big retailer). It all depends on how much sponsorship the scheme gets, lots of cyclists at Exec level at my last place, including the UK CEO at the time

    @bails – it’s about 65% including the final charge (the one to lease it for years, i.e. keep it) if you’re a higher rate taxpayer

    @trail_rat – I appreciate there will be associated cost, and the margin they make will vary by bike, but if it genuinely was so bad they why not say no. It’s a choice

    Dibbs
    Free Member

    Our company changed from Cyclescheme to Cyclesolutions a few years ago, now we’re stuck with having to buy from Wheelies, before we got a voucher to use in whatever LBS you liked (and if you knew them well you could top up your purchase, which isn’t really legal). 😉

    amedias
    Free Member

    The only reason C2W is a problem is the £1k limit is a bit restricting

    This always winds me a up a bit, and I hear it quite regulalry. £1k is NOT restrictive at all for buying a decent bike (and gear) to cycle to work on/use as a commuter, even for general leisure or utility work outside of that.

    It might be restrictive if you’re wanting to use it to pay for your new bouncy carbon endurosteed but that’s not really what C2W scheme is supposed to be about!

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “@trail_rat – I appreciate there will be associated cost, and the margin they make will vary by bike, but if it genuinely was so bad they why not say no. It’s a choice”

    Many do ….. many chose to deal with fair providers rather than those that want a heavy slice of the pie to not use their in house supplier – because of the obvious loss of profit generation by selling you an in house brand.

    wobbliscott
    Free Member

    Balls, that means i’ve not been owning a bike for about 3 years then. When should I expect a knock on the door from a guy from the Her Majesty’s Government demanding it back? I’m surprised the government has nothing better to do than to retrieve old worthless bikes off people what with the impending global economic crisis, the NHS about to implode, Junior Doctors going win strike, the EU referendum, international terrorism and everything else.

    hairylegs
    Free Member

    @balls … I paid £70 to continue leasing it for a further three years at which point rentention of title will pass to me and HMRC write it off as having zero value and thereby avoiding any tax liability for benefit in kind.

    Dibbs
    Free Member

    (c) those that get the bike, put it in the garage and then never ride the thing.

    (d) I know of more than one where I work that rode their bike into town and had it nicked in the first year. 😯

    Daffy
    Full Member

    hairylegs – Member

    @balls
    … I paid £70 to continue leasing it for a further three years at which point rentention of title will pass to me and HMRC write it off as having zero value and thereby avoiding any tax liability for benefit in kind.

    Thereby reducing your percentage saving by a further 7% on the original £1000 or in other words, a £1k bike for £850…if the cycle shop applies the 10% admin fee, that’s an £1100 bike for £965…not a great deal now, is it?

    burko73
    Full Member

    I had c2w bike a few yrs ago – 3+

    Genesis latitude 853 £1600 new price, discounted at winstanleys to £1100 or so, bought on c2w through govt employer paid over 12 months and then I’ve never heard anything else. No hire charges or end of scheme pay off charge.

    Shame my employer just emailed out to say they gave had to limit the c2w amount to £1K as it breached benefit in kind rules above that amount. Some sort of tax implication – be interested in what that means/ how it impacts above £1K?

    Dibbs
    Free Member

    Balls, that means i’ve not been owning a bike for about 3 years then. When should I expect a knock on the door from a guy from the Her Majesty’s Government demanding it back? I’m surprised the government has nothing better to do than to retrieve old worthless bikes off people what with the impending global economic crisis, the NHS about to implode, Junior Doctors going win strike, the EU referendum, international terrorism and everything else.

    Nothing to do with the Government if you read the rules of the scheme the bike belongs to the employer and they loan it to you for a year for 12 monthly payments that just so happen to equal the cost of the bike before tax at whatever tax rate you’re paying.

    hairylegs
    Free Member

    @daffy: Ermm … that’s not quite how it works! The LBS sells the bike to me for £1,540 (taking 10% off the £600 difference between £1,600 and £1,000) and redeems the C2W voucher taking a £100 (10%) hit off the voucher value of £1,000 thereby selling the bike for £1,440 whilst I end up paying £1,320 for a £1,600 bike, the difference being made by the LBS discount and the tax benefits of salary sacrifice. (I did factor in the one off payment at the end of the monthly payments as well)

    bails
    Full Member

    Stop calling me balls! 😆

    I was very happy with the deal I got on my C2W bike about 5 years ago. That was back when you just pay a nominal fee after the 12th payment to take ownership of the bike. Think I paid £50 at the end of the year and the bike was mine. It just doesn’t seem quite as good now that HMRC have been a bit firmer about the value of the bike at the end of the first year. I’ve heard of people being offered the ‘buy now’ option or nothing, without the choice to extend the lease. I’ve also never spoken to anyone who’s been offered the BIK option (I’d happily take ownership of the bike after a year in return for ~£100 extra tax).

    benp1
    Full Member

    OK, I’ll correct myself, £1k is a good limit for buying a bicycle to cycle to work on. I know, I have one that I paid cash for that was well under the limit (Arkose 2), and it’s now had a few thousand miles on it

    But if you want to buy a nice bike to cycle to work on, then you’re a bit more limited. You also benefit less if you’re a lower rate tax payer. 1st world problems…

    The Brompton I’ve just bought just crept over the £1k limit, I know I could have specced things a little less or bought a cheaper folder. I also know that the margins maybe aren’t as great on Bromptons as on other bikes

    I’ve bought 3 bikes on C2W, all from LBS (to either home or work), all independent. I wouldn’t have bought those bikes from those shops if it wasn’t for C2W

    thegreatape
    Free Member

    Stop calling me balls!

    +1, it is very disrespectful to call boils by an incorrect name.

    I thought you now paid tax on the value of the one year old bike (50% is it) that your employers give you, not the actual value of it. Or do that three year thing until it’s worthless.

    jimdubleyou
    Full Member

    Our scheme is administered (in it’s entirety) by Evans. They currently own my Arkose and will do for another 4 years. I’m not sure they would want it back.

    Cost nothing at the end of the initial scheme to do this.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    I’ve often wondered what employers would do if at the end of 12 months, you turn around and say the final price is too much, keep the bike.

    bails
    Full Member

    +1, it is very disrespectful to call boils by an incorrect name.

    I thought you now paid tax on the value of the one year old bike (50% is it) that your employers give you, not the actual value of it.

    Thanks thegreatgape

    It’s an option. They can either give you the bike so you’ve received £500 of “benefit” from the company and you then pay tax as if they’ve given you £500 extra income. Or they just make you pay the £500 to buy the bike.

    If I was running the company and had, say, 30 bikes through the scheme in a year, I’m sure I’d see the appeal of charging everyone £500 and getting an extra £15k in the bank.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 72 total)

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