What do you lot have, use, recommend? What do I need to know about wheels and tyres for racing and training?

Thanks.

I am a massive clement fan. For all round mixed conditions the mxp is fantastic, personally I think it is far superior to the grifo it’s based on, th edge knobs have real bite, on grassy offcambers you can hear them gripping, itosundslike velcro! Then the pdx for mud, seems to be good but I’ve not tried any competitors

If you’re racing then there’s no substitute for tubs, and if you’re going for tubs then there’s no substitute for either Dugasts or FMBs. The wheels themselves matter less, it’s all in the tubs.
Make sure they’re glued on properly and you’re away.

Tubeless is good for training.

I’m on:

Dugast Smallbirds for fast dry days
FMB Slalom for intermediate days
FMB Supermud for biblical days

I train on Kendas set up tubeless, either Cholla Pro, Slant Six or Happy Medium.

Wheels I’m on 38mm carbons for the tubs and American Classic Hurricanes for training.

I’m on Stans Grail rims with either Vittoria XG or XL TNT depending on conditions, same for racing and riding

Might get some MXP’s for training and set them up tubeless (or latex tube?) on clincher rims. The OEM Maxxis Mud Wrestlers on there at the moment are lethal on local wet rooty trails.

Shall look into a set of carbon tubs. Any recommendations?

Ooo, have you bought it then?

I’ve raced with tubs and tubeless and was just as rubbish with either 🙂

I spent most of the races worrying that my tubs were going to roll off on corners or puncture when I hit stuff. With tubeless I didn’t worry about anything and I could use the wheels tyres for any other riding on my cross bike too.

Crosshair, unlikely it’ll be going back!

Reynolds Assult Discs and the whole range of Challenge Tyres, mostly using Griffos (most used) day races, long distance, races in a mix of hardpack and loam, then Limus in mud and soft loam, Almanzos in super hardpack dry and Clem’ Gravel Grinder 38c for gravel.

Pic?
Why not.

I spent most of the races worrying that my tubs were going to roll off on corners

Tubeless – seen plenty struggle with the low pressures, rolling tyres off rims, probably seen more rolled tubeless than rolled tub or flatted tubes.

I currently have clinchers which I swap tyres on; file tread Challenge Alamanzo, or Clement PDX which is broadly similar to a Baby Limus, and a good intermediate tyre with low rolling resistance but strong side knobs for cornering and digging into mud.

I also have a set of nice mud race wheels similar to LS; 38mm Light Bicycle carbons with FMB Supermuds. Tubs take a bit of adjusting too as they grip so much, but you can run such low pressures you get lots of sidewall flex so initially it feels like the tyres are sliding.

The Wyman Method of setting proper cyclocross race tire pressure – Part 1

The Wyman Method of picking cyclocross tires – Part 2

I’m ~67kg, I tend to run ~25psi in clinchers and 18psi in the tubs (both vary depending on whether it’s a smooth grass crit or a rooty, techy course), I’ve had the tubs as low as 15 and they bottomed out regularly on small rocks but no damage done.

Crashtestmonkey… tubes with your clinchers then? Thanks for the links too, useful stuff.

Shall check out LB rims. Bikebuoy, those Attacks may need to wait for next season!

yeah sorry, clinchers with regular butyl tubes. Latex tubes supposed to be the dogs danglies, which is probably why they’re not cheap and have been sold out (in CX sizes) when I’ve looked. I use latex in my road bike, but not risked trying a 23/25mm tube in a 32mm tyre.

Properly glued tubs are totally reliable. You’l only roll them if you haven’t glued them properly in the first place, or you’ve let them get wet over time or not looked after them between seasons. (Speaking as someone who’s rolled badly prepped tubs in the past!)

I normally bow to the wisdom of LS for all things CX ( :D), but proper top-end tubs always seem a little more ‘fragile’ than the run of the mill Challenge that I use (Do you still need to aquaseal the side walls etc?)

Grifo/Limus for me.

Trying some Clements this season as well, but seem to remember reading that they’re more cheaply constructed than even the Challenges…

Do you still need to aquaseal the side walls etc?)

not on FMB as the sidewalls have a (latex?) rubber coating, they’re not untreated cotton.

http://www.fmbtires.com/fmb_cotton_Super_Mud.htm

FMB Cyclocross tires feature a superior sidewall coating factory installed.

And at the risk of pointing out the bleeding obvious keep an eye on eBay and on your local CX league FB pages, plenty of people are gearing up for the new season and selling old kit which might include wheels if they’re using new axle standards, got new sponsor/support etc. Think I paid £250 for mine which are mint LB carbon on hope Pro 2 with newly fitted FMBs (which are ~70 quid each).

I use Clement tubs for racing, either PDX or MXP depending on course conditions. All mounted on Hope 45 carbon wheels.

For training either Clement clinchers or the Schwalbe G-one gravel tyres ive been knocking around on all summer mounted to Hope 25 alloy clinchers.

I used to use FMB and Dugast, which arguably run a little quicker than the Clement, but they’re fragile. I felt no the clement much better in the mud than either of the others.

I aquaseal all my skinwalls, doesn’t stop them from going muddy brown it just sort of delays the inevitable… I’ve got a set of Fangos in my cupboard yet to use.. they look a little fragile with thier well spaced short knobbles but I’ll give them a go soon.

IME tubs vs clinchers is the difference between riding and walking in places. Because of the bigger tyre carcass volume and low pressures, tub tape doesn’t work – Belgian method works best, using a cloth rim tape between the rim and tubular. Ideally, having 2 sets of wheels/tyres to cope with different conditions.

I’m running Dugast Rhino’s when it’s muddy, but I do think the FMB carcass is nicer to ride on, having had a set of Rhino treads on FMB’s in the past.
I’ve tried Challenge of various types & they’re ok, but nowhere near as supple as the others, but do the job when it’s drier & that matters slightly less.
Schwalbe Racing Ralphs would be great if they were slightly wider, as they’re narrow for a 32 & I’ve had puncture issues in the past.
Glue them well, try & rush it & it’ll show when one rolls-I use the standard method, but generally four layers of glue on tub & rim with 24 hours between each layer until the last one on the tub, do that & bang it on!

Thanks chaps. Loads of great info there.

Need to sort out tyres for training first so will try and find some stock of MXP open tubs and run set them up tubeless (can the Griffo clincher be run tubeless?) Pinch flatted already with the stock tyres and tubes. Can’t remember the last time I pinch flatted, not ran tubes off road for years.

I’ve nothing to add except

Ooo, have you bought it then?

It looks very nice, much better than you’d give it credit for in the web-shop pics.

It got me curious again and I found a cheap Alu KMC 105 last night, but I’m buggered if I could justfy a purchase, what with a dedicated 2018 MTB race season & 17/18 coached winter plan needing MTB skills in the mix.

A bit like my TT bike, which I’ve used only 3 times this year… 🙁

Nice one MrBlobby

I’m using sk gravel king on hope XC rims. Much lighter than most tubeless CX specific rims and work very well tubeless

Now this thread has got me looking more seriously at tubulars too 😳

Now this thread has got me looking more seriously at tubulars too

for me it was like going to full suspension, or fitting a dropper post in being a step-change improvement in performance. I can’t afford a rack of tubs/wheels for different conditions so for now I’ll be sticking with swapping different clinchers for dry/mixed, then my tubs for mud (where there is the least grip available so they make the most difference, is my theory).

I can’t afford a rack of tubs/wheels for different conditions so for now I’ll be sticking with swapping different clinchers for dry/mixed, then my tubs for mud (where there is the least grip available so they make the most difference, is my theory).

Interesting stuff. I’d have thought tubs for the most likely conditions then clinchers as a second choice, but that ^^^ makes a lot of sense.

It looks very nice, much better than you’d give it credit for in the web-shop pics.

TBH I haven’t given much thought to what it looks like, it’s a tool for a job. Is actually quite nice, though not as nice as bikebouy’s baby blue one. My LBS tells me the paint is a little faded on one side (unnoticeable to me!) so he’s doing me a deal on it 🙂

then my tubs for mud (where there is the least grip available so they make the most difference, is my theory).

That was my thoughts. Also no chance I can sneak a new wheelset thorugh till I’ve started making inroads into paying off the new bike so prob not till Nov.

Also I feel more likely to get a thorn or other sealant fixable puncture earlier in the season so running tubeless with sealant makes sense until it gets really muddy, especially as I’m quite happy with running tubeless around 22psi which gives plenty of grip on drier courses.

If you only get one set of tubs, get mud ones. The difference between them & clinchers is unreal. Mainly due to how low you can go with the pressure to find grip on off camber stuff you never thought possible! I run down to 16psi on some courses. In the dry where higher pressures are needed, the difference between them is reduced.

Deep-ish section rims that big a deal in the mud or is it all about the tubs?

Thinking something like Novatec CXD tubeless with MXPs for all rounders. Then some tubs on deep-ish section wheels for mud. Sounds reasonable?

not sure if it’s ‘officially’ a reason, but deeper section wheels don’t clog as much as there’s a rim sitting where the mud would go. Switching between a ‘nice’ bike with deepish tub rims and a ‘pit’ bike with standard shallow (clincher) rims it makes a genuine difference.

Ignore all that ^.

Skinwalls. Its all about skinwalls.

Is there much in it between the various Chinese purveyors of 38mm tubs? Thinking about a second set and it seems like the planet x ones (which I have) are about the same price once you factor in shipping from lightbicycle etc

The PX 38mm tubs ones do seem a pretty good deal if you want it all built up. Don’t know much about their hubs though.

… though QR with no mention of them being convertible to 12mm, which would rule them out.

Deep rims? Depends on what your local ride conditions are like, but if you do get ankle-deep slop then it’s often quicker to run unless you have a spare bike in the pits and someone to clean if off every lap as the drivetrain gets so gunked-up that you’re effectively stuck in one gear. Agree that if you can only go for one pair of tubular wheels, then a mud tyre is probably the best as you’ll often find grip e.g. off-camber whereas you’ll slide in a clincher. I also run sealant in my tubulars.

Suspect I’ll be racing similar courses down south to crashtestmonkey as I think he’s fairly local to me. So his advice is probably good for local conditions.

These look reasonable: Novatec tubulars

I read somewhere else they come with all axle adaptors but don’t rely on that! Would like a bit lighter (suggested 1485g wheelset) but think you are going to big money to acheive that

Ferrals I was looking at their clincher ones for all rounders. Can get them for under 320 quid from wiggle. They come with axle adapters and spare spokes and nips. Weight is pretty good, a big improvement from the > 2kg stock wheels!

If you’re having more than 1 set of wheels, i advise on going for 6 bolt compatibility. I made the mistake of getting some Mavic open pro’s on Hope RS4’s made up last winter & whilst they were sensibly prices & durable i didn’t factor in the fact that 160mm rotors & lockrings are about £45 each. Then i ended up getting another pair done recently with some clincher rims, as it became a total arse adjusting the disc brakes when swapping wheels.

Deep section rims (like mine) hmmm, I bought mine because the std wheels weighed more than the bike with me on it alone. 😆

It’s mainly weight and aesthetics in my world. Lighter they are, roll better and have a sort of rolling motion to them. Less weight = a teeny bit more umph. But I’ve only noticed the deep sections being any good in long distance races and short course mud. Short course dry they make no difference in the real world, only longer distance dry when you can blow chunks is where they come into their own.

I’d not bother if it’s short course racing only and save a few squid and get another set of wheels (Hunt for example) and set em’ up with mud tubs or open clinchers on.

But .. they do look swanky don’t they 😆

Can anyone recommend somewhere to buy cross tubs that don’t cost the earth? Planning on starting racing this year, got the bike sorted with two pairs of tubular wheels, but need some new tubs. Don’t really wanna fork out £200 on tyres alone.

£50 per tyre seems reasonable to me. Not seen any cheaper