• This topic has 25 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by Del.
Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)
  • Cutting fencing put across a RoW – legal?
  • ajantom
    Full Member

    I ride up on Woodbury Common on a regular basis, and over the last couple of years they’ve put up a lot of fencing and gates to keep in grazing animals. Quite a few of these fences are over established RoWs, but they have put in gates over most of the footpaths and bridleways (though some of them are padlocked!).

    However, I was up there a couple of nights ago and one gate near the quarry has been replaced with barbed wire and wire fencing. There is an obvious post with a RoW arrow (purple, which I’m pretty sure is a byway of some sort), so I’m sure this is not authorised!

    I’m going to report it to the local RoW officer, but how would I stand legally if I just happened to have some wirecutters in my pack next time I’m passing? 😉

    STATO
    Free Member

    Have you checked if there are diversions in place? or maybe that purple arrow is just a path that they previously provided but is not a legal RoW?

    ajantom
    Full Member

    No diversions in place. The main path (which is a bridleway) just to the right of this gate has a padlocked gate over it, and they’ve put fencing over the other smaller paths that run parallel to these two.

    Just looked on the EDDC site and a purple arrow is a restricted byway – open to all non-motorised traffic. On the OS map for the area there is a bridleway shown.

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    nbt
    Full Member

    I’m going to report it to the local RoW officer, but how would I stand legally if I just happened to have some wirecutters in my pack next time I’m passing?

    Fine to clear an obstruction if you just happen to have something in your bag that is suitable for the purpose – for instance if it’s in there so you can drop it off with a friend next time you pass by his house…

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Are both the BW and the parallel path (with the wire) marked on the definitive map as ROW? Could be that the gate on the BW is the issue that needs to get sorted, and the path blocked with wire is not a ROW.

    STATO
    Free Member

    There is an interactive Council Map available online.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    They have put a lot of double/vehicle gates in the fencing all over the common – these are almost all padlocked – and smaller gates with ‘horse’ latches either next to them or on parallel paths.

    I emailed the council when these locked gates started going in and was told that as long as they were providing access with the smaller gates either next to or near the larger gates then it was fine.

    They’ve also fenced over (with barbed wire in many cases – which I ******* hate!) many smaller, but established paths. As this is common land many of these paths aren’t proper RoW, but have probably been in use for centuries.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    This is a complex area, as it falls into both ROW law and Commons law

    The enclosure by fencing of a registered common requires consent of the secretary of state, issued via PINS (Planning Inspectorate) – there is an extensive process of application, consultation, objection, public inquiry, decision, and one of the major issues in this analysis is the effect on public access.

    however

    I have also witnessed on several occasions PINS authorisation interpreted as giving the ‘go ahead’ for erection of fencing or gates that may effect rights of way, which it does not give, and there is a separate system for authorisation of gates under ROW law that is restrictive, and decided on a different basis from the PINS commons decisions.

    often people (inc ROW staff) don’t understand these intricacies and will pass the buck. I would take your local ROW department as the first point of call, but come back for more advice if they bluster about commons law.

    schnor
    Free Member

    I’ve got nothing more to add to ninfan’s post other than adding that authorisation for gates isn’t applicable for Restricted Byways – the purple arrow – even if one was genuinely needed (the ingress and egress of animals / etc).

    I wouldn’t start cutting anything (certainly not new lengths of tight wire fence which *might* be lawful, but personally and professionally bits of loose old barbed wire are fair game TBH) until your PRoW team have looked into it.

    dobiejessmo
    Free Member

    This goes on a lot on Rbyways theirs a few in Gloucestershire when before 2006 when they were RUPPs they were not touched now they are Rbways they have electric fencing now across them all the time even when there is no animals in the fields.Theirs a lot of odd goings on in the countryside these days 🙂

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    The main path (which is a bridleway) just to the right of this gate has a padlocked gate over it,

    they can’t padlock a gate across a bridleway on the definitive map

    any fencing on a common would be as the result of a order, that should be discoverable, some commons might have querky rules but restrictions to access always have a paper trail, no paper trail then it will not be lawful

    I would also contact the Local Access Forum, they will have a set of worthy people who can give the council a harder time if you are getting fobbed off

    timber
    Full Member

    Normally very difficult to get permission for any sort of enclosure on a common, or even to get the commoners to agree on the colour of grass.

    Quick search found this project linky
    Owning a common generally gives very few rights, so this seems a very thorough leverage of legislation.

    timber
    Full Member

    Or alternatively, there are no commoners/they hold all the rights.
    The joy of commons is there is no consistency, a lot of old law and mostly unwritten or hearsay.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    ajantom – Member
    …I’m going to report it to the local RoW officer, but how would I stand legally if I just happened to have some wirecutters in my pack next time I’m passing?

    Back in my young bolshie days I used to carry wirecutters to chop my way through fences that were over paths and tracks. I did tie them back up with green garden wire though.

    These days I just climb over them. It’s quicker. 🙂

    burko73
    Full Member

    Probably the lands now being grazed for conservation purposes. This is happening a lot. It might not be a registered common and the grazing unit needs a fence obviously. There’s prob a lot of “desire lines” across land such as this but few prows. If you’ve had grant aid to fence grazing units you’d be mad to fence across a prow.

    There’s no problem with locked vehicle gates as long as there’s a wicket type gate alongside it. Basically if it’s a bridle way/ footpath the landowner/ row people don’t want vehicle access but the gate alongside allows people on bike/ horse / foot access. Nothing wrong with that and quite sensible.

    Oh – don’t cut brand new or recent high tensile wire stock fences. Particularly the line / barbed wire which will be under significant tension and could cause you and others near you a very serious injury.

    Get a look at the definitive map and email your prow officer at the county falling that the a
    Local access forum have a statutory right to protect access and can fight on your behalf.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    Cheers for all the advice.
    I need to go back and have another look and take some photos. The fencing isn’t under any tension as they’ve just removed the gate and filled in the gap with wire – crossed stuff below and a strand of barbed wire across the top. It looks a right mess!
    My two maps, online OS and the online council map are at odds with each other….it varies between a BW on my really old landranger, a national trail (East Devon Way) on the online OS, and just an unmetalled road/trail on the council map and my Explorer. According to the Council map the BW does a 90 degree turn at this fence and heads to the road, but there is no visible trail on the ground.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    There’s no problem with locked vehicle gates as long as there’s a wicket type gate alongside it

    It’s not that simple, gates can only be installed on a bridleway where formally authorised, and that consent can only be given if it is for agricultural reasons. For what it’s worth, the locked gate should be located ‘off’ the line of the definitive route, same with cattle grids too.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    My two maps, online OS and the online council map are at odds with each other….it varies between a BW on my really old landranger, a national trail (East Devon Way) on the online OS, and just an unmetalled road/trail on the council map and my Explorer. According to the Council map the BW does a 90 degree turn at this fence and heads to the road, but there is no visible trail on the ground.

    The definitive map has precedence in terms of rights of way, if there is long term evidence of other routes being used there is still the opportunity to put in a claim for an PROW on that line

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    Local one near me and electric fencing up for the cows (I’m sure they appreciate the shocks they get 😀 ). They’ve stuck a notice up in one spot. Didn’t look in detail but think it’s like ones I’ve seen before which say they have a temporary allowance to block off the RoW because of the cows. Besides it’s on common land where you can basically wander all over so really doesn’t make much of a difference, just go around.

    Andy_Sweet
    Free Member

    I think most of the stuff on Woodbury was permissive paths rather than true rights of way.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    True, but this had a proper gate until recently, and is definitely marked on at least one version of the OS map as part of the East Devon Way.

    The whole fencing off of the common for the grazing of non-indigenous animals is a bit crap anyway. However, it’s typical of Clinton Devon Estates and their not particularly sensitive usage and treatment of the land they own.
    Harpford woods is a good example- they took out some trails because of alleged damage to trees by cutting down lots of trees and brush and digging up loads of sections. Far more damage done to the woods by their actions than was done by kids building a few lines and jumps.

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    Possibly they used removing any damaged trees as an opportunity to do some woodland management too?

    I’ve done some conservation volunteering, and it’s interesting how much cutting down of trees one has to do, in creating glades and letting the light get to the forest floor more easily, to help things down they to grow.

    ajantom
    Full Member

    Nope, they’ve just driven a digger down the trail lines, excavating sections as they go and pushing brush and smaller trees onto it between holes. Looks a right mess!

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    That’s no good.

    Xylene
    Free Member

    Go out at night time, with no torch and only a basic GPS, get yourself tangled in the barb wire across the footpath, and wait until the next person comes along to rescue you.

    Sue council, fences removed.

    Del
    Full Member

    have a chat with Jim. he’ll probably have a decent idea of what it’s about, or who to talk to about it.

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