Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)
  • Custom geometry carbon
  • richiesee
    Free Member

    This is a bit of research and I’ve only just joined the forum – I hope that’s OK.
    What do you think about custom geometry options on a carbon frame? Is this something that would appeal to you?
    You could specify your fork length, wheel size, reach, seat tube length, chainstay length, head angle, seat angle, BB drop, BB type (even BSA threaded!), cable routing, bottle bosses, and paint colour.

    I make carbon frames in the UK and just wanted to scope out the interest.
    Cheers!

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Read any threat that gets onto geo and you will find loads who know exactly what they want and why all bikes are wrong 😉 would be good to see some of them get what they want 🙂

    Personally I like that a design has been ridden, tested, evolved and put together by some excellent riders, good engineers and testing.

    nemesis
    Free Member

    Carbon road or carbon mtb?

    For an mtb, no chance – I just don’t think it’s that sensitive and there’s so much choice out there I can typically find close enough for what I want.

    For the road, more likely but still not very likely unless the pricing was amazingly competitive with non-custom frames which seems unlikley. Again, finding what I want is generally not that hard these days with a huge range of frames to choose from.

    And it’s worth noting that these days with standard carbon frames, even pros tend to use standard frames (though on road at least, sometimes with unusually long stems…)

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    Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    It would only be useful to me as a way of replicating a geometry I already knew I liked. My little brain can’t cope with all the permutations and how they influence one another so I have to test ride.

    thepodge
    Free Member

    I’d go for it but it would total depend on price

    bedmaker
    Full Member

    I’d have a custom carbon e-stay fatbike if that’s not too much trouble. Monocoque front end to make a big built in frame ‘bag’ and integrated mudguard. How much?

    richiesee
    Free Member

    These would be lightweight XC frames in carbon fibre for about £2400

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    If I was buying a custom carbon road frame then I would want a full bespoke fit included and proven build expertise which is why I would go to the likes of Comtat (own brand Italian tube to tube or casati/Sarto/tomassini) I want proven bike frame building history and the 5000th frame through the workshop not the 5th, there seem to be a lot of new UK builders making very fancy looking frames with lovely paint jobs but very little material/frame building knowledge and charging top money.

    Edit: you posted XC frames as I was writing mine, your price is about right but me personally would want the qualified fit/geometry for that and a bit of background/expertise, not the 2nd frame built in your shed or downtime at work!

    Good luck with it though

    thepodge
    Free Member

    Just had a look at your website, nice looking stuff but WAAAAAAAAY out of my price range

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    £2400… so about the same as the Santa Cruz FS frames
    50% more than a highball carbon?
    (just the quick figures I could find)

    I think most will probably be out.

    Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    £2400 😯 A lot of well sorted options available at less than that budget. I’d have to be bizarre proportions to even think about it.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Probably what MrSmith said, It’s not such a new idea that it’s not an unknown, but I’d probably rather go to a more established builder.

    Having said that I wince at the thought of £600 frames, so I’m not the target market!

    mtbmatt
    Free Member

    £300 more than a Open 1.0.

    They have pedigree and its the lightest frame you can buy.
    £2400 for a frame from a new company? Can’t see that going too well.

    If you can build a brand, then I think thats possible achieve eventually.

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    It’d be tough for me to say but I think some people in your target market of fast XC riders may well want it. £2400 sounds a lot but I suppose it’s on par with a custom titanium frame. Before I looked at your website I assumed it’d be a lugged construction- is that right? If so it’s not a technology that’s been big in the road world under Colnago but it’s not something common in the MTB world, I don’t know any big manufacturers that’ve used carbon lugged construction in the last 15 years and so it may be a bit of a leap of faith for riders to go for it.

    MrSmith
    Free Member

    So you are already established in the road world, the custom carbon MTB hardtail market is probably tiny compared to road though? your road frames are keenly priced but i would think twice on putting energy/money into mob’s. i guess you will have to see if this thread generates any orders! 🙄

    monkeyfudger
    Free Member

    No, I’m much too poor. I’ll gladly test one for you though, imagine how much brand recognition and kudos you’ll get after giving a semi mincey completely average Sport rider in his 30’s a bike like that!! Sales will go through the roof…probably…

    nickc
    Full Member

    These would be lightweight XC frames 🙄

    why?
    There are already any number of these sorts of frames I can get. I’d like a tough strong Long travel HT that’ll weight less than the equivalent steel or Aluminium or Ti frame, and with all the benefits of Carbon. Like the carbon 456 only less ugly 😆

    richiesee
    Free Member

    Thanks for the feedback!
    I don’t use pre-formed lugs, instead I wrap the joints then cure the frame in the oven. The process is similar but different and it’s what makes the custom geometry feasible as there are no moulds.
    Cheers

    njee20
    Free Member

    I echo what mtbmatt said. How light is light?

    It’s a niche market in MTBs, and custom geometry doesn’t have the same plaudits as on the road. Unless you’re in the same <900g space I can’t see anyone really going down that route, and it’s not something I’d recommend you invest heavily in.

    FWIW, I have heard of you and did consider one of your road frames!

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    munrobiker – Member
    It’d be tough for me to say but I think some people in your target market of fast XC riders may well want it. £2400 sounds a lot but I suppose it’s on par with a custom titanium frame.

    The thing about the top end really fast XC riders is very few of them will either not buy their own bikes or get them on a very good deal.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Luke, that’s twice the price of a custom Ti frame.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Maybe the “elite racer” racer market isn’t the one to after. As someone else pointed out even half decent racers will be getting frames for free, or at cost at least. And plenty of them will want FS too.

    In my experience the roadies who build up say a Parlee frame with Enve wheels are more often than not just sportive riders who want something really nice. Maybe there’s your market.

    If I was racing and wanted to dump a ton of money on a custom carbon hardtail I’d be expecting a bullet proof, no quibbles lifetime warranty too.

    EDIT: Never mind racing, if I was buying at all.

    njee20
    Free Member

    In my experience the roadies who build up say a Parlee frame with Enve wheels are more often than not just sportive riders who want something really nice. Maybe there’s your market.

    I agree with that, but who are those people in MTB circles? I don’t think they exist in the same way, and you’ll never narrow down the type of bike enough to suit them. The City types with huge swathes of disposable income ride Parlees on the road, as you say, I don’t think they ride MTBs at all!

    DanW
    Free Member

    First off, the road frames look beautiful.

    These would be lightweight XC frames in carbon fibre for about £2400

    There is a fair range of MTB hardtails with varying geometry at a range of price brackets already… and custom @ £2400 stands out as an outlier in that trend that will only appeal to a very, very small number of people. On the one side of the spectrum you have a range of Chinese HT’s around 1000g for ~£350 and the other side something like a Pivot Les or similar at ~£1400. Maybe frames like Niners go up to £1800 but I’ve never come across anyone paying that money for them. As others have said the elite racers would not be the target for this type of frame.

    I think most people looking for a custom MTB at the moment, even for XC racing, would still go for steel. I was looking at custom options for MTB and the only reason I’d do it is for features on the frame rather than geometry or looking pretty or anything like that which I imagine appeals on the road side.
    You can’t really get away with babying an MTB frame! So it comes down to things like SS & geared dropouts, axle choice, cable routing, BB type, Di2 compatability, headtube type… the little details.

    The steel build I was after would come out at £900 in steel and £1400 in Ti for comparison. There’s also CF builders making nice stuff under £2000

    Rorschach
    Free Member

    Just echoing what’s been said.
    The market does’nt really exist on the mtb side (and certainly not to the STW massive),you might sell to existing customers so they have matching road and mtb’s to hang on the wall.There’s not the same need to own a 10k race replica (unless its eduro!) for pootling round the lanes for mountainbikers!
    The majority of serious racers get their bikes on a deal (and I’m not sure I’d want to race anything that expensive) and the rest get chinese jobbies.
    You wouldt’nt be able to compete with the very lightest commercial frames using tube to tube construction and still retain the stiffness and strength (imho of course).
    That said….they would be looverly and I’d cut off my right testicle to have one (and a cx version too 😀 ).
    I suspect there is a reason Parlee don’t do them 😉

    avdave2
    Full Member

    It would only be useful to me as a way of replicating a geometry I already knew I liked

    This for me and the ability to have an EBB or sliding dropouts extra water bottle bosses cable routing choice and similar small but important things. Of course it’s also got to be significantly cheaper than Ti.

    richiesee
    Free Member

    Thanks for the feedback!

    jimjam
    Free Member

    njee20

    I agree with that, but who are those people in MTB circles? I don’t think they exist in the same way, and you’ll never narrow down the type of bike enough to suit them.

    I honestly don’t know them njee. I know a clique nearby that’s comprised of wealthy semi retired guys, but they are riding off road and trying to buy an edge on each other. So they’re buying more travel, more carbon, EI bikes etc. They don’t really need that for the riding they are doing but a race hardtail wouldn’t suit them either.

    I think the customer does exist though. If you look at some big brands they’ll have £6-7000 range topping bikes that are specced purely from a weight saving point of view. Someone must be buying them.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    f you look at some big brands they’ll have £6-7000 range topping bikes that are specced purely from a weight saving point of view. Someone must be buying them.

    As I said before, most of the people racing on the 6-7k bikes are either loaned them or paying cost.
    There are some of the rich list but for some of those name is king so it would need to be very special, other problem is there are some really nice FS bikes out there at an exceptional weight and very functional.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Schurter’s World Championship winning Scott for a start.

    njee20
    Free Member

    But (amazingly) even £6k is some way short of most top-of-the-range road bikes still.

    I agree those people exist, just meant that their numbers are far fewer than on the road and predicting what they’ll want is a lot harder due to the nuances of MTB design.

    Re: who buys £7k Scales etc – shop owners, a smattering of people getting them very cheap and a tiny tiny percentage of paying customers.

Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)

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