I could just email Warby I guess, but wondered if anyone else agreed with my thoughts:

I’m not sure how many places are now ‘managed’ by the CTC but relatively near to me are Rogate, Tilgate and a little bit further afield Aston Hill.
I’ve enjoyed riding at all these places in the past for either free or for a small fee (Rogate used to be a tenner p/a for insurance and membership)

Now that all these places are CTC pay to play and the annual ‘offer’ 😀 is:

CTC Membership £68 for an adult member and provides annual access during opening hours, plus full CTC membership and third party insurance. We also offer a range of memberships, including junior and family memberships.

The full benefits include:

* Full access during opening hours for a year
* £10m third party insurance and cycle-related legal advice
* CTC’s membership magazine, Cycle , six times a year.
* CTC’s weekly email newsletter ‘ CycleClips ‘
* Route and touring information
* Technical and product advice
* Discounts on cycling products:
*
o 12% off at the CTC shop by wiggle , http://www.ctcshop.org.uk
o 12% off at http://www.ZipvitSport.com
o 15% off at Cotswold Outdoors, all stores nationwide and online.
o Full list at http://www.ctc.org.uk/memberbenefits

Membership Types currently available are:

* Adult £69
* Junior (under 18) £44
* Family £122.00
* Affiliate £45

As the main riding style at these sites is DH/FR most of the above is dross

Full access during opening hours for a year
* £10m third party insurance and cycle-related legal advice
* CTC’s membership magazine, Cycle , six times a year. (I bet it’s not a patch on DIRT/MBR/MBUK/Razzle etc 😆 )
* CTC’s weekly email newsletter ‘ CycleClips ‘ (Another awesome read I expect)
* Route and touring information( Touring? on a DH or FR bike, sweet!)
* Technical and product advice ( Will it tell me which to buy 888’s/40’s/Boxxers or maybe how to service them?)
* Discounts on cycling products:
*
o 12% off at the CTC shop by wiggle , http://www.ctcshop.org.uk (Yeah against list, who pays list!!!?)
o 12% off at http://www.ZipvitSport.com (Who? oh its road bike stuff, brilliant!)
o 15% off at Cotswold Outdoors, all stores nationwide and online. (Not much there for cycling in general)

Most of my comments are a pi$$ take, but do you agree with this:

All you are really buying is insurance and a really tiny spoonful of bureaucracy as the sites are all dug by riders, as you can only ride one bike at a time and only in one location, shouldn’t there just be a fee to join and ride anywhere, as if you were to join all, the multiple ‘benefits’ above (say x3) would be no better than x1

Hmmm. Cost of joining CTC is £37 per annum. Why have Aston Hill and the other places become involved with CTC?

Edit: Presumably liability insurance comes into the equation?

do riders still have a discretion just to pay for the day?

yes, but at rate that equates to a lot more

I may be wrong Dongo, but I thought my affiliate Aston Hill membership allowed me to ride at all three although thinking about it, it may have been Brian Fairclough’s mate who told us that when we went to Rogate for that disappointing ride back in May. £47 for them all, including insurance, is okay but if joining the CTC does not grant you access to ride at all three and bearing in mind how disappointing Rogate and Tilgate are nowadays (they were okay when they were free), then I can see both of them being wholly ignored by riders and more cheeky, hidden places cropping up (not necessarily a bad thing).

Anyone know the score on the above, before we get carried away and speculation mutates into rumour?

I’m pretty sure that Dave/David at Rogate *the mate of Sam Hall” 😆 got it wrong, and a membership/insurance/newsletter etc is only for one site and not all

If you ride at Aston Hill a lot, it’s worth taking out one of the CTC / Aston Hill membership packages. Full CTC Aston Hill membership is £68 and affiliate membership is £45 for an adult member. Both provide year round access to Aston Hill* (and other forthcoming CTC MTB sites) as well as the CTC’s third party insurance and an invitation to the Aston Hill annual general meeting. Full CTC membership has the added benefits that come with being a member of the UK’s largest cycle organisation

I’ve never been to Aston Hills (well not since it became a formal venue, I think I rode through it the 1900’s). £6/7 per day does look a bit pricey by MTB standards. (Chick sands is £5 (£50 for a year), green sands thing £3, woburn £36 for a year, but a round of golf at woburn is way more…)
Looks like the CTC will cover other venues

I believe that the CTC intervening at Aston Hills saved the venue. I can confirm that tomorrow night if any one cares.

The role of CTC in MTB can seem a bit odd. But broadly I support it. The down side is a magazine that doesn’t cater perfectly for all. The up side is much better representation at a national level. We could have a National MTB trail riders club but its always going to carry less clout than one club covering a greater range of cycling

If you are in the CTC then you apparently can’t go on any of the Nirvani rides as Simon was sued by some numpty who fell off and hurt himself and blamed Simon, although the rides are explicitely not organised…

Edit

I have done some digging at Tilgate and was informed there that membership to CTC covers all three venues.

You’d think they’d put as one of the benefits of membership rather than you can get 15% off of an anorak

If this is true, then great, but I’m not so sure

I have also spoken to the guys at Rogate, as I rode there a fair bit last year, and they also told me that the intention was to have a single membership cover all three.

I was told the same in 2009 also, but was curious to whether this had officially been adopted yet, or just trail chat

Pretty sure that CTC did help Aston a lot, I imagine in no small part due to Ian, who has done so much for the place over the years. I think the point here is about the access to ride at more than one venue through CTC membership rather than whether the CTC is a worthwhile organisation for mountain bikers in general though.

I don’t mind paying a small fee for maintenance etc but I already have British Cycling insurance so it seems silly for me to have to buy a policy all over again for as Dango puts so succintly, 15% off an anorak!

Although the CTC is less likely to implode in August 2012 than British Cycling will.
If I didn’t have to be a member of BC for insurance & CRB then I must admit I probably wouldn’t be.

I need to be a BC member to get a racing licence and hopefully they stay afloat, but my point still stands, I don’t want to have to pay twice!

At Ski resorts if you already have insurance you get a cheaper skipass than those who need to be insured which makes sense to me, pay for what you require only.

Yes, I agree.
Going to be at HH tomorrow?

There’s two prices for Aston Hill membership aren’t there?

I went for the lower price which didn’t include full CTC membership, but still seem to get all the bumf.

Anyway, the price seems fair to me, it’s a good venue and the tracks are obviously being looked after.

I think the CTC tie-in was just a marriage of convenience, wasn’t it?

aP, I won’t be there, doing up a house so have jacked in racing for a while. The other Glowinskis should be representing though.

chapaking, I don’t want the bumpf and don’t need the insurance I just would like to pay a small fee for upkeep of the trails and stuntramps(tm)

BC insurance only covers you for the 3rd party liability. I imagine that the CTC membership of these sites is specifically for riding at the venues. So more like if you visit an indoor skate park or ski slope. You may have your own general insurance but still need to pay a fee to use the site (which includes their insurance).

As i understand it this insurance is what allows access to the sites and keeps them open legally. Remember that until CTC stepped in Aston Hill was closed / struggling to stay open.

All valid, but does one payment cover all sites?

venue specific or not, surely the CTC insurance is 3rd party too, not personal injury?

I think the CTC’s involvement at Aston Hill etc is great, the more legal places we have to ride the better. I’m just not sure £6 a day is that attractive when there are free places to ride nearby, or £68 a year when I might only ride at the above venues 3 or 4 times in total.

I guess that is the problem all over the place leggyblonde!

Although FC trail centres are free to ride, most have car parks to pay at (usually at least £3), as well as cafes etc to get some money back from you. These other private ventures must have a minimum cost to keep them viable, and although £6 sounds a lot, it is still only a couple of pints of beer.

The annual membership may not be good value to you at that price, but for someone who rides a couple of times a week it would be.

Out of interest are there any XC trails at Aston Hill?
It’s local to me, but I’ve not ridden there for about ten years. The reason being is that I didn’t rate what xc stuff was there. Then when I heard I’d need to pay to ride there I didn’t bother ever again.

Obviously Aston Hill is surrounded by miles of great free trail riding, so what does my daily ££ get me.

A cheaper anorak

😆

Sorry for not getting onto this thread sooner.

If buy the full member option at Aston Hill, Rogate or Tilgate you can ride at all three sites all year round.

At each site there is a partnership between the Forestry Commission (Land Owner) CTC and the local mountain bike club. The program is run on a non-profit basis and all income from membership monies is shared between the three partners to cover the day-to-day management and future developments of the site.

Like all insurance it’s only when you need to make a claim that you appreciate it being there.

The CTC insurance cover included in your membership covers riders using the sites and the mountain bike club and the volunteers acting on behalf of the club.

Membership Rates are as follows:

For the full CTC Membership Package and access to all three Forestry Commission CTC sites:

Full Adult – £69.00
Full Junior – £45.00
Full Family – £122.50

For a reduced membership package and access to your local site:

Associate Adult – £45.00
Associate Junior – £45.00
Associate Family – £75.00

Happy to answer any further questions you might have.

like, when i renewed my ctc membership how come i didnt get a new membership card… next time im at astonhill i need something to show the ‘ranger’

CTC,

How does this work in the case of Rogate then? The CTC ‘involvement’ has been openly chastised by the people who ride at the site in question.

The committee who you were liasing with have pretty much been outed, the guy who was chairing it has thrown all his toys out of the pram & told the FC to flatten the lot. Rumour after rumour of sanitising the trails to pander to the ambulance chasers in case someone hurts themselves (riding DH, who would have thought it!) & massively inflated pricing (Rogate used to be a private members club @ £12 per annum).

Quite simply, it doesn’t work there – there are numerous other local spots people went to and rode for free when this all came about 12 months ago and left Rogate dead. It’s only busy again because the whole thing has fallen flat on its a*se (again) and no-one is collecting any money.

We are meeting to discuss the way forward for Rogate DH this Wednesday (12th January) at the White Horse in Rogate. The idea of Wednesday’s meeting is to set up a much wider club committee along the lines of the one on Aston Hill. As it has on Aston Hill this will spread the workload increase the input and make sure that the local riders get the support they need from both the Forestry Commission (FC) and CTC.

Whilst I agree with you that it’s not worked to date the Forestry Commission as land owner have to find a viable way of managing mountain biking on the site. So this scheme has to work otherwise FC will be left with no alternative but to flatten the site which I’m sure you’ll agree would be a huge loss despite the abundance of trails in the area.

FC and CTC are keen to work with the riders to make this scheme work. Hopefully that process will start again on Wednesday. If you or anyone you know locally wants to have their say as to the best way forward hopefully you’ll be able to make it along to Wednesday’s meeting. Unfortunately there’s very little that we can do about the cost. We have tried to keep these as low as possible whilst being realistic about the true costs of running and insuring the sites. As I mentioned in my early post this is a not for profit scheme.

Hopefully those that believe CTC will have to pander to the ‘Ambulance Chasers’ will be reassured by the level of trails we insure on Aston Hill. We are not about to play the health and safety card but both the FC and CTC have a duty of care to riders using the site and we have to make sure that any built trail and built features are in line with the Forestry Commissions Guidance.

Soobalias – Drop me an e-mail with your name and membership number and I’ll chase up a new card for you. My e-mail address can be found here – http://bit.ly/ic7YID

Ian W

oooh cheers Ian, i was going to try the CTC website, but not knowing my membership number means i cant login from work

Ian,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Unfortunatly i’m not local enough to make the meeting midweek, so will have to rely on the others showing up to voice opinions/concerns.

I can only agree, your ideas and intentions sound great, but i’m just not sure in reality whether or not it’s going to work. Aston has a far greater footfall than Rogate for starters, even so much as the simple things like a place to park, rather than cars dumped on the roadside down the hill.

The sad reality of Rogate is, there are a number of other riding spots within 20-30 minutes that people will go to ride for free, rather than pay ~£50 a year. I’d love to be proven wrong, but it’s already happened once. Madness I know, when people spends thousands on a bike, but that seems to be the way it is. The group of people I ride with (circa 10-15 people) all stopped riding at this venue over the uncertainty of the future of the trails & basically losing £50 for what may have amounted to nothing.

As to the type/quality of the trails, i’m assuming you have been to both sites in question to view them, i’m sure you are aware there are some fairly hefty jumps & drops at Rogate. My immediate concern is I raced at Aston circa 18 months ago & there was a jump built specifically for this race, (not very big at ~15ft) which had to be removed post race as it was deemed too risky? As far as I am aware, to date this is still the case? If trail features like that are knocked down at Rogate to comply, you really are putting the final nail in the coffin i’m sad to say 🙁

I do believe with the right person who has the time to invest that it could be made to work, however i’m not 100% sure with the costings as they are that will be the case. Sadly I think it’s just too much money. The only real way I can see it being managed is back to the original ‘Rogate Downhill Club’, run and administered by the members themselves with a minimal cost.

Like I said though, I would love to be proven wrong 🙂

Hob Nob thanks for the feedback.

I can assure you that all feedback is welcome taken onboard and action is taken when possible. I agree with you that cost is an issue and I’m sure it’s something that will be raised at Wednesday’s meeting.

The good news is that the jump you referred to Aston Hill was only closed because a new section of trail was needed. Now that’s built the jump is open without any changes. Hopefully the size of some of the jumps on the 4X will reassure you that the size of the jumps isn’t an issue. It’s how they are constructed, inspected and maintained that counts when it comes to keeping features in a trail. The FC have already brought materials for the club so that trail features on site can be brought up to standard where and when needed.

I’ll hope that you’ll be reassured to hear that the idea is that the club will run Rogate along similar lines to the Rogate DH Club of old. The difference is that the CTC are there to insure mountain biking on the site and make sure that the club has the support; funding and information it needs to operate and develop the site.

I’m looking forward to tomorrow evenings meeting (Wednesday 12 January – The White Horse in Rogate – for anyone out there who’s interested in shaping the future of the site and can make it) and I’ll let you know how it goes on Thursday.

Soobalias, the CTC has had a lamentable history in recent years over membership renewals. If you don’t have your card you can’t prove you have 3rd party insurance (and may indeed not have it if the system has not registered you). I would urge anyone who has not received confirmation of renewal or has not seen a DD leave their bank account to follow things up or take the risk.

Ironically Dango, the Cycle magazine often has letters commenting on the preponderance of articles on mountain bike stuff, though admittedly they are not aimed at the MBUK target audience.

The Rogate DH meeting went well on Wednesday evening. Thanks to everyone that took the time out to come along and volunteer their time. We now have a club committee! So the site should really start coming together. The next build day is planned for the second Sundwy in Feb and we are working closely with the Forestry Commission on site.

On the membership front CTC Membership Services team have undergone an extensive review and they are always happy to help. If you’ve not received your membership card (they don’t know you haven’t unless you tell them) or have any questions regarding your membership give them a call on 0208 891 8941.

3 days later……
ive just emailed my home addy as a reminder to chase this up. The money has gone so im not worried about the insurance PoV…

Nice to hear the Rogate meeting was productive.