What makes the Saudi Government so different from ISIS?

Whenever we think the barbarism in the world cannot get any worse, someone proves us wrong. This week the Saudis have tried to do it again: they plan to crucify Ali Mohammed al-Nimr, a juvenile.

Ali was just 17 when he was arrested on 14 February 2012. He was accused, first, of participation in an illegal demonstration, and second, of an ill-defined firearms offence.

He does not dispute that he protested the persecution of his uncle, Shia Sheikh Nimr Baqr al-Nimr, who has also been sentenced to death for daring to demand democratic reforms.

No evidence has been produced on the firearms allegation, which he and his family strongly deny.

What makes the Saudi Government so different from ISIS?

2 things actually, oil and money.

2 things actually, oil and money.

IS have plenty of both of those, it has been key to their success

The Economist

Ok, I’ll add a 3rd, the backing of America.

they plan to crucify Ali Mohammed al-Nimr, a juvenile.

That line itself is silly, he was arrested at 17 but that was in 2012. He could be 20 now so is no longer a juvenile.

The difference between the Saudi Government and IS is the way they go about their business. He is not being persecuted because of religious beliefs but because of committing a crime. Although its not a crime in the West it is where he is from.

Very sad 🙁

That line itself is silly, he was arrested at 17 but that was in 2012. He could be 20 now so is no longer a juvenile.

Not as silly as yours

He is not being persecuted because of religious beliefs but because of committing a crime.

You realise that having the wrong religious beliefs is a crime in Saudi Arabia?

Article one of the new provisions defines terrorism as “calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

Not as silly as yours

Constructive. Well done.

You realise that having the wrong religious beliefs is a crime in Saudi Arabia?

Nope, I’m not an expert and that’s not what he’s being done for.

I’m not saying I condone what is happening to him I think it’s a sad state of affairs when any life is taken but comparing a government to IS isn’t really a like for like comparison, the sensationalist headlines aren’t really needed either.

Have you seen the way IS are killing people? Lines of men being shot when they thought they were being taken back to their village? Men being lined up, shot in the head and dumped in a river due to not wanting to convert to Islam? I’m not talking the few that have been put on TV in boiler suits, I’m talking all the men in a village.

You realise that having the wrong OR NO religious beliefs is a crime in Saudi Arabia?

That’ll be me then. Thorns at the ready.

Have you seen the way IS are killing people?

I have but to my mind the difference between killing a few people in quite a brutal way for a nonsensical crime and killing many people in an incredibly brutal way for a similar crime is ethical window dressing compared to not killing them in the first place.

Given whats happened in Middle Eastern countries where authoritarian rulers have been overthrown, the Saudi’s know that they can do pretty much whatever they like, and the west will fully back them, for fear of the alternative

Given whats happened in Middle Eastern countries where authoritarian rulers have been overthrown, the Saudi’s know that they can do pretty much whatever they like, and the west will fully back them, for fear of the alternative

Well, they’ve already demolished the World Trade Centre and didn’t get any comeback so I’d say you’re right.

I hate this BS. We have much to be ashamed of in the West. But these barbaric laws and trials are so far out of touch that it astounds me.

Its been done before, they wrote some book about it last time and there was a bit of outrage.

Maybe a film this time?

Difference between SA and IS? Historical ownership. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. Also, as it suits SA financially to cozy up to the west, they slightly moderate their behaviour, in comparison to IS, who exaggerate their behaviour for the opposite reason. This sort of thing shows that they are largely cut from the same disgusting cloth, though.

Given whats happened in Middle Eastern countries where authoritarian rulers have been overthrown, the Saudi’s know that they can do pretty much whatever they like, and the west will fully back them, for fear of the alternative

You might be onto something there binners… after all, MI6 and the CIA overthrew the democratic government of Iran (among many others), wonder how much similar stuff continues to this day~ How deeply were the intelligence services involved with the Arab spring?

There again, given the west’s history with supporting regimes and causes they go on to demonize and overthrow, such as Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, The Taliban and Osama bin Laden & Al-Qaeda, the Saudis must be a bit wary.

I hate this BS. We have much to be ashamed of in the West. But these barbaric laws and trials are so far out of touch that it astounds me.

Its surprising isn’t it, in a region renowned for its liberal, pragmatic and forward-thinking cultures, and the tolerant way they embrace different religions, beliefs and lifestyles, that Saudi somehow stands against all that? Never been able to fathom it myself

There again, given the west’s history with supporting regimes and causes they go on to demonize and overthrow, such as Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, The Taliban and Osama bin Laden & Al-Qaeda, the Saudis must be a bit wary.

It’s not just the middle east. The US (and France and the UK) meddled in Indo-China to such an extent that by 1975, every single country in that region had rebelled and turned communist. Of course, we didn’t learn any lessons and the Taliban/ Al Qaeda/ ISIS are the progeny of organisations we supported.

Its been done before, they wrote some book about it last time and there was a bit of outrage.

Maybe a film this time?
Like “Death of a Princess”? That went down well at the time.

America kills plenty of people by death penalty. They do get to sit down though.

America kills plenty of people by death penalty. They do get to sit down though.

It’s possible to think that two things are wrong, whilst recognising that one is worse than the other.

What makes the Saudi Government so different from ISIS?

The Saudi family seized power and created Saudi Arabia in collaboration with the United Kingdom. UK support was absolutely indispensable in achieving this.

IS is the fairly predictable result of western foreign policy which began with supporting, arming, and training, international Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan. When Osma bin Laden first arrived in Afghanistan from Saudi Arabia he had the full backing of the US government.

Constructive. Well done

OK, so because the ‘investigation’ and ‘trial’ has taken so long he has become an adult, so he should be punished as such, despite being a minor when the ‘crime’ was committed?

Not throwing homosexuals off tall buildings ?