Never asked a question like this before, but cycle to work has been approved and am dithering over one of these two….what does the STW hive mind think?

I’d probably lean towards the Sequoia as it has bigger tyre/mudguard clearance and more sensible gearing. Depends on which model you’re looking at though.

The Sequoia is probably lighter, more versatile, better clearance and objectively better. I’d still have the CdF. That Gold colour on the 2016 CdF 10 looks great.

I’m very happy with my CdF 20 which I’ve had for a couple of years now.

Looking at the same question myself

CDF 10 2017 is currently on it way into the shops (genesis via facebook this morning). 2016 is out of stock most places I’ve looked in my size

Base model Sequoia will apparently arrive in the UK on the 21st October. That’s based on a phone call to Spec’ about 5 minutes ago

I’d prefer the Sequoia gearing. No idea why it might be lighter?

My reading if it as that the Sequoia has slightly longer chain stays and as its speced with bigger tyres probably and touch more tyre clearance. So a little more off road biased

I’m also thinking about the Vapour 20. I’d need to swap the block (and maybe chain and rear mech) but that Brings Tiagra within the cycle to work scheme budget

Neither – when I was in this situation I discounted every Specialized, even those on offer, as they are overpriced compared to all competition. The Sequoia is mad money for what it is.

I did really want a Croix De Fer but they are very heavy and as a result a bit dead to ride.

I ended up with a Marin Lombard Elite, mostly because it was very cheap (VERY cheap at the time) but in an ideal world I’d have had a Pinnacle Arkose. My dad has just got a Mango AR and if I were to do it now I’d have that, the paint’s a bit thin but it’s significantly lighter than pretty much every CX/Gravel bike below £1000, the wheels have decent sealed bearing hubs and you can customise the spec a bit so you get what you want.

The other one I was considering was the Marin four corners in the green with the orange fork…..and I want steel !

Munrobiker all useful input

I have ridden an Arkose and its great. But through work I have to use Halfords cycle to work so I’d have to buy it outside the scheme. But at £720 it is still a good price.

The mango is out as its just not made in a big enough size for me

The Lombard Elite looks good but that’s too steep for C2W. In general shops won’t take Halfords vouchers against Discounted bike and who can blame them

I’m also keeping an eye on the Raleigh Mustang Elite.

Similar questions here. I was thinking of a Croix de Fer and then saw the Vagabond in the same LBS; also a Trek 920 there. The Trek looks good but perhaps a bit expensive compared to the Vagabond (£1400 compared to £1000 in LBS IIRC). Not aware of the Marin before but looks well priced.

I find it a little difficult to distinguish between the Specialized Sequoia and AWOL; both more off-roady than the Croix, but seem very similar to each other. Anyone got any experience or opinions on that? Thanks!

Planet x London road 11 speed SRAM rival build on offer for 549 at present, with a years interest free credit.

That deal finished on Sunday I think karnali. £800 now.

Ah sorry about that then, I ordered on Friday so not had a need to check since

I was tempted by the London Road but again they don’t quite do an extra large

@bmblbzzz
It looks like the Sequoia is a slightly lighter Awol, probably nippier handling but not as solid with a heavier touring load. I have an Awol Comp which is amazing – I like the look of the Seqouia but to me there just isn’t enough difference to justify having both.

Bikepacking.com has some good reviews of a few different bikes:
Trek 920
Sequoia
Awol

I can’t compare my Sequoia Elite to anything else, other than the CAADX that I’m currently selling, mentioned but happy to answer any questions on it; picked it up on Thursday last week.

As munrobiker and others have commented price will undoubtedly be a large consideration but I bought mine on bike2work and got a very unexpected discount from the LBS when I ordered it.

I’ve never felt so immediately comfortable on a bike before and the flared riser drop bars are lovely; the hand position is great due to the longer hoods from the hydraulic disk brakes.

Cheers steezysix, I’d found those bikepacking.com reviews but it’s good to hear from owners too. Got to say though, that website does seem to do good reviews, based on a decent period of use and not afraid to criticise. I think I really need to decide how much off-road ability I want. Seems the Awol is more “gravel and mud” and the Sequoia more “tarmac and gravel” but I guess they’re all pretty good at all these…

Oh, certainly can’t get more than one – can barely justify that! 😯

Ah, just seen there is a comparison of the three at the very bottom of the Sequoia review!

In true STW style…Cotic Escapade because that’s what I got and I prefer it to my 2014 Croix De Fer

The Escapade is really nice, I looked at that before choosing the Awol. The thing that put me off was the front and rear dropouts, probably fine in use but they looked faffy to me!

If I was buying again now, I’d go with the Sequoia. I like being able to put 2″ tyres on the Awol, but on the kind of terrain where that’s necessary my hardtail does a better job. The only downside (for now, anyway) is a lack of 12mm dyno hubs on the market – I think it’s a must-have for this kind of bike.

I’m fairly qualified to comment here. 🙂

I’ve had a CdF 10 for 1.5 years and have just picked up a Sequoia Elite (the lovely sage green one) which was probably the first one out to a customer in the UK

There’s no doubt thew Sequoia is a better bike. It just is. But it was also £650 more expensive at RRP, so it bloody should be…!
I’ve only had one short 10 mile shakedown ride so far on the Sequoia but so far –

Its very comfortable. On gravelly tracks and light off road it floats along nicely.
The tyres are great. Smooth and quiet on the road and plenty of grip on the gravel. I won’t be changing them.
Bars are lovely. I really like them.
Saddle is different to my usual Bel Air but I think it’ll be fine.
Gearing is good, lower then the CdF with the smaller inner ring and bigger cassette but I’ll still be looking for a 46t outer to replace the 48t
Brakes are fine, nearly as much power as a decent set of MTB disks.
Neat cable routing, lots of braze ons. (I could fit 5 bottle cages)
Rear seat stays are nice and slim, I think that helps the comfort. Forks are beefy but seem compliant.
Tyres went up tubeless easily and stayed up after a few leaks out of the joint in the rim sealed up. That lopped nearly 1lb off the weight of the wheels. (I never rode it with tubes though)
It’s definitely NOT a road bike. It rides like an MTB. It’s MTB size too. I’m 5’8″ with a 30″ inside leg and thats the correct saddle height for me on a 54cm frame. Lots of post showing. I’d say don’t be tempted to size down.
You can tell it’s a high quality steel frame, it’s got that lively zing to it where the cheaper and heavier tubing on the Genesis always felt a bit ‘dead’ to me.
I took it down some familiar local rooty singletrack and it took it all fine. I could certainly do Swinley Forest red route on it no probs. Like I said, it rides like an MTB.

Negatives? A few.
For me it’s still over geared with a 48t big ring. I’ll fit a 46t if I can get one.
Rims seem a bit of overkill to me and they did leak from the joins at first. Not really good enough on a TLR rim IMO.
No valves or rimstrips in the box. That’s penny pinching. I used 25mm Gorilla Tape to seal the rims.
Rear brake mount wasn’t quite flat and the calliper twisted as I tightened it. I filed it flat by hand. I don’t think a ‘real customer’ will have to do that though (I’m an LBS mechanic, if it was your bike you’d never know I’d done it… 🙂 )
Hub bearings aren’t great. I stripped and regreased them before I rode it but they still feel a bit agricultural in the hand, certainly not as good as a Shimano Deore in feel, put it that way.
Plain gauge spokes. Phhhhhhhhh…… really? The build quality is acceptable but I might rebuild mine. Or I might 650b it…. We shall see…..

In essence, the CdF is a good commuter bike, and a decent light tourer. I did both on mine. But I could go further in more comfort on the Sequoia, no bother.
The CdF was harsh on rough stuff, the Sequoia is noticeably a lot smoother. But it should be.

If you can afford the Elite with the carbon fork and hydro disks, it’s a no brainer IMO
If you’re looking at the cheaper one, I’d still say it’s going to be a better bike. I don’t think it’s overpriced at all. People all too readily just look at what parts are fitted to a bike and assume that because one bike with the same groupest is more money that it’s too expensive and dismiss it based on nothing more than that.

I like Madison products, Genesis in particular, but the Spesh is superior in just about every department.

Oh alright then…. 😉

[url=https://flic.kr/p/Mdqako]IMG_6090[/url] by Peter Atkin, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/MBmSK3]IMG_6098[/url] by Peter Atkin, on Flickr

@steezysix:

The only downside (for now, anyway) is a lack of 12mm dyno hubs on the market – I think it’s a must-have for this kind of bike.

Does that mean it’s not possible to use a hub dyno with that frame? Odd if so, cos I thought it had some special cable routing thing in the fork – but maybe that was the Awol, I’d have to read it all again. That would be a big no for me. 🙁

It’s definitely NOT a road bike. It rides like an MTB. It’s MTB size too.

Peter Poddy
Ah ha!

Rims seem a bit of overkill to me and they did leak from the joins at first.

Yeah, the wheels certainly are! Suspect they’ll be utterly bombproof and take a heavy rider loaded up for bikepacking*.

I had exactly the same experience with the rims and also air leaking from around the (plastic?) insert in the valve hole. Ended up resorting to putting the tube back in but will try again and I suspect the 25mm Gorilla tape you used will be more effective than the tape I tried. May try sealing up the join in the rim with CA glue, too.

* Or whatever your niche is called.

Spot on Peter…..just what I was hoping to hear!

I’ll only be going for the base model, as the c2work voucher is very stringent this time…..only £1000 and no topping up.

Do you know whether they all ship with those gumwall sawtooth tyres? I hope so!

Oh, and how do they compare geometry wise with a diverge? Similar? My lbs has one of those I can try first, but not the Seqouia yet.

I think the black with the gumwalls will look very nice!

HH – mine were fine round the valve hole, it was just the rim join. If I ever re-tape them I’ll put a smaller piece of tape as right angles to the circumference over the join and right to the edge of the rim. That said, after about 10-15 mins the leak stopped and they’ve been fine for 3 days since I set them up.

Shed – AFAIK the gum walls are only on the Elite. Spesh aren’t even listing them for sale sadly, on the black ones.
I’ve ridden a couple of Diverges round the block and they feel closer to a road bike to me. Faster, quicker turning, lighter.

Skinwall tyres? Approved.

HitlerStem AND a Riserdrop abomination bar? GRRRRR.

Looks good. Apart from the bars. 🙂

Flashy, that’s how it came out of the box and I fully intend to keep it that way. Fashion be damned, I want comfort and off-road manners! 🙂

@bmblbzzz – only SON make one at the moment as far as I know. Probably not too hard to get a 15mm one and use a sleeve adaptor to bring it down to 12mm. Still limited options though. It’s probably not a huge deal as 12mm axles will probably be the new standard for bolt through road forks, so I imagine Shimano will have to start offering them at some point if they want a share of the market…

Edit: the base Sequoia has a steel fork so maybe standard 9mm dropout? Doesn’t say on the website.

Do this sleeve adaptors work?

Sorry fella, I meant does the diverge size up similar to the sequoia? I can try a diverge, as the lbs owner has one! I want a sequoia though!

Phhh. Thats tricky to say as I only get to ride other people’s Diverges which are generally the wrong size for me.
How tall are you? I’d get your usual road bike size, that’s what I did. Don’t be tempted to size down.

Dunno, my SP 15mm hub has an adaptor to accept a q/r axle, so I would think it would be the same principle? Just needs to be a tube 15mm diameter, 1.5mm thick walls and just slightly shorter than the hub.

Disclaimer: I’m just guessing, if your bike explodes, don’t blame me! 😀

Also, nice bike! Just a bit jealous…

Haven’t tried a Sequoia yet, but have a Diverge. On sizing, I am bit taller than PP and would usually have a 58 Road bike, but ride a 56 Diverge.

I find it a little difficult to distinguish between the Specialized Sequoia and AWOL; both more off-roady than the Croix, but seem very similar to each other. Anyone got any experience or opinions on that? Thanks!

I road an AWOL at the weekend, briefly. I also road a day one with 40mm tyres. I’m not after a single speed but I was trying to get a feel for Genesis sizing

The AWOL is a really big bike. It has longer seat stays and a much taller head tube than the seqouia or croix De fer. The long stays really help with heal clearance with panniers and get the rear mech’ further from the tyre. But its not what I want. Its like a rigid MTB with drops. That doesn’t mean its a bad bike but I’m after something that will spend a good chunk of time on the road unladden

This is on may radar as well. From the desk next to Genesis I assume

I saw that….the Ramble
As for sizing, I’m 6′ exactly, but with long legs and short torso, but long arms……I’m always on the cusp between medium and large, hence the questions……I’ve messed up before, getting a too small bike and having to sell it.

SP 12mm dynamo

http://www.sp-dynamo.com/8Xseriesdynamo%20hub.html

Went down to LBS today and had a quick ride on the Trek 920. It feels comfy and very, very stable. Correspondingly (or perhaps coincidentally?) it felt slow to accelerate but seemed to have no objection to going fast once I got it there. I was riding it as it was displayed in the shop, with front panniers (empty, I presume, but I didn’t actually check) and a box of beer on the back (sadly also empty!), so perhaps it would feel a little nimbler unladen but I don’t reckon so – it felt as if it would be stable as an oil tanker under all conditions. Also, this one was borderline too large for me – fine in height but felt a bit long – so perhaps a size down would feel nippier (this was a 56cm, I have a 56cm road bike but, well, different geo!). It’s probably unruffled off-road but I didn’t have a chance to try. I reckon the gear range is too high for touring though.

What I didn’t like was the bar end shifters. They worked fine and I very quickly realised that shifting the lever up moves the mech down, the opposite of down tube shifters. But it’s too much of a faff, I’m too used to having everything at my hand; STIs for a road bike, triggers on a MTB. Not that the steering wanders, cos it’s so stable, but shifting and braking almost simultaneously is something I’ve got used to and that’s not possible with bar ends. Oh, and I knocked my knee on the shifter before I’d moved off from the kerb! Didn’t happen while riding though. First time I’ve used hydraulic discs too and they are teh awesome of awesomeness; I almost fell off the first time I used them cos I wasn’t expecting such power!

Impressive bike but not quite right for me.

When I got back to LBS and talked to them, bloke there suggested the Genesis Tour de Fer. Reynolds 725 frame, identical to Croix but for rear triangle, sold complete with hub dynamo, f & r lights, f & r racks, guards… £1500. Obviously more of a traditional tourer than the 920, Sequoia, etc, but should – probably – have some mild off-road capability too, though I don’t think it can go bigger than 38s with mudguards. Quoted weight is off-putting at 15kg but presumably that includes those racks, etc, etc. Whether it’s worth £500 over the basic Sequoia though? I guess that depends how much you value those racks (I don’t, I have spares at home) and dyno (I do) and of course how it rides for you.

that Sequoia Elite is lovely ! I have a CDF 30 with similar spec (albeit a carbon fork) and it makes the Spesh look good value…

Sequoia Elite is same price (list, anyway) as the Tour de Fer. Having looked at the specs – but not yet ridden or even seen one in the flesh – I think I’d probably go for the base model, as the Elite seems to have only carbon fork over base model (that I’d value – not convinced by 11-speed for no increase in range, might be persuaded by hydro discs over cable I suppose, possibly).

Rims seem a bit of overkill to me….Hub bearings aren’t great. I stripped and regreased them before I rode it but they still feel a bit agricultural in the hand….
Plain gauge spokes. Phhhhhhhhh…… really?

That’s curious, as the OEM wheels on the (2015) base spec AWOL were actually rather good, decently wide but lgiht rims, DB spokes, and (once adjusted from factory too-much-preload setting) decent hubs.

I would have expected them to put similar if not better on the Sequoia.

Looks ace though ,enjoy!