Auto handbrakes which are properly interfaced with an automatic transmission are FANTASTIC

Why do you need a handbrake when you have an auto? Just leave your foot on the footbrake, surely? Mine never goes in park until my journey's over.

Why do you need a handbrake when you have an auto? Just leave your foot on the footbrake, surely?

And annoy/blind the driver behind with the glare from your brake lights?,(especially at night)

Driving auto = left foot brake + right foot throttle.

Why do you need the hand brake?

ABS, ESP, HBA are surely a good thing for most people, most of the time as drivers don't need a cool head and considerable skill in a panic situation

I agree that ABS is a good thing, although most people wouldn't know what it did. Having said that, those people probably wouldn't know that they couldn't normally steer with the with the brakes locked anyway… 🙂

I've had ESP, but found it intrusive and have since had much more powerful cars without it, suffering no problems.

I'm not actually sure of the benefit of brake-assist. I've had cars with and without it (better braking feel), but not noticed any positive difference, which is not to say that it's a bad thing.

As for Sat-Nav, I visit many different sites around the UK and have driven in various countries without one. I have used a borrowed Sat Nav, but it caused an argument when my passenger hadn't set it properly and I queried the route, so we switched it off and managed perfectly fine for the rest of the time around France. I do like to think about routes beforehand and enjoy navigating myself about though.

It might have been beneficial when driving through the chaos of South American cities, but Sat Nav can't warn you about 100s of maniacs driving and walking at you.

Two really crap features I've found in american hire cars:
-GM's Onstar communication system – one car had the buttons to activate this on the rear view mirror- adjusting the mirror invariably meant I brushed the button which called up the emergency services. Very embarassing- did this half a dozen times in two weeks. No handbook in the car meant I had no idea how to disable it, or even hang up the call at first. A good idea, but really silly location.
– timered automatic door locking- in a people carrier, went out one morning to load the car up, turned on the engine and aircon to cool the car, went back and got the kids to find the doors had automatically locked with the engine running. Luckily I hadn't put the kids in first. had to call out a locksmith, who said this was a regular occurence.

sat-nav is ace, but i'm not buying one until i can get a Brian Blessed voice over for it.

who ever designed the automatic handbrake should be publicly beaten to death. slowly, over several days.

that bloody passat thing wouldn't release until i was in neutral and had my foot on the brake, and then i had to press the button – with my right hand.

so, to do a hill start, i've got to take both hands off the wheel, my right hand to release the handbrake and my left to put the car into 1st.

i then have to do a 'normal' hill start, only this time i haven't got a handbrake to help.

(automatic handbrake is now off, my foot is still on the brake, and now i've got to do the hasty rolling-backwards-trying-to-find-the-bite-point-before-crash-pedal-dance).

clearly, modern cars are so well engineered (i'm being serious), that automotive design engineers have to re-invent the handbrake in order to justify their salary.

ahwiles – don't understand what you are doing to end up in that position.

The way it should work is, on a hill start, you put car in gear with handbrake on (like in any manual handbrake car), go to pull away (like in a normal car) and the handbrake releases automatically (instead of doing it manually).

If, for any reason it doesn't release (which has happened once or twice, usually on very steep hills or on steep, wet cobbles) you get to bite point yourself and push the button and it releases.

Tidy.

who ever designed the automatic handbrake should be publicly beaten to death. slowly, over several days.

that bloody passat thing wouldn't release until i was in neutral and had my foot on the brake, and then i had to press the button – with my right hand.

so, to do a hill start, i've got to take both hands off the wheel, my right hand to release the handbrake and my left to put the car into 1st.

i then have to do a 'normal' hill start, only this time i haven't got a handbrake to help.

(automatic handbrake is now off, my foot is still on the brake, and now i've got to do the hasty rolling-backwards-trying-to-find-the-bite-point-before-crash-pedal-dance).

clearly, modern cars are so well engineered (i'm being serious), that automotive design engineers have to re-invent the handbrake in order to justify their salary.

sounds to me like you were doing it all wrong. Start car, put seatbelt (need to make sure you do this first) press Auto hold button till light comes on. Put car into gear and take to bighting pouint and drive. Get to a junction, come to a complete stop take foot off break (in gear or out of gear) handbrake now on. Again take to bighting point and handbrake goes off.

there seems to be alot of people that cant work this out, your not alone. Only took my an hour to figure it out and now I love it.

sat-nav is ace, but i'm not buying one until i can get a Brian Blessed voice over for it.

It seems you are not alone.

i lived with the hatefull thing for a week, it wouldn't release unless i was in neutral, AND had my foot on the brake. so i couln't find the bite point – as this would require me to take my right foot off the brake, and press the accelerator.

you said it yourself, on a steep hill you have to press the button to release it, with your right hand, you've now taken both hands off the wheel…

how is this 'progress'? – what was so bad about a 'normal' handbrake?

it's on when i want it to be on, it's off when i want it to be off, and during a hillstart i've even got a spare arm conveniently placed just above the lever to operate it with. 'seasy.

here and now, i'm demanding a public apology from the idiots at VW who ruined a perfectly good car.

i owned an older passat, it was big boring and comfortable, it was brilliant.

Didn't BMW's have low friction tires and self drying brakes?! low friction tyres?! Obviously, they think their customers are thick as pig sh1t as well as sh1t drivers. Apparently, indicators are an optional extra on BMW's, they are now obsolete as no one ever had them fitted.

how is this 'progress'? – what was so bad about a 'normal' handbrake?

An automatic handbrake means no requirement for including and fitting a mechanical linkage. The software can be included within the car's control system. From a driver's point of view, I'd prefer to have a manually operated hand-brake. Of course, a handle could be fitted which mimics a conventional hand-brake.

i assumed it would just release when i tried to pull away…

nope.

i lost count of the number of times that sodding thing left me stranded in a que of traffic, trying to pull away with the handbrake on.

i just joined that Brian Blessed campaign, for my sanity i stongly suggest you all get onboard.

X

People not bothering to indicate (or look to decide if it is a good idea) before carrying out a manoeuvre is a symptom of the feeling of safety and isolation created by many of these features.

You wouldn't switch lanes in front of an car/truck bearing down on you at 20+ mph if you felt in any danger of being shunted or spun into the other traffic resulting in death or injury, and yet people do it…. 🙄

sat-nav is ace, but i'm not buying one until i can get a Brian Blessed voice over for it.

I don't need a satnav but I honestly think I'd buy one just for using on my commute if Brian Blessed did the talking 🙂

you said it yourself, on a steep hill you have to press the button to release it, with your right hand, you've now take both hands off the wheel…

I have my left hand on the wheel (as I am already in gear) and right hand to tap the button. Job done.

It is only an issue on _really_ steep hills, steeper than most public roads (B&B driveway at Garve and maneouvering in a medieval French hill village that was more built for horse and cart than Passat estate spring to mind).

You do need to learn how to use it (the manual tells you pretty clearly – did you RTFM?) but it's pretty handy and works at least as well as a manual brake. And you get a big storage bin/ armrest in the centre console that will hold a dozen CDs instead of a medieval lever thingy 🙂

clubber; then get on face-book, and join the group. this thing needs support, we can make a difference!

i don't want flying cars, or a jet-pack, or free limitless energy from seawater, i want a Brian Blessed voice over for a Sat-Nav i don't have, and don't need!

soul-rat; the thing wouldn't even release on the flat – i had to be in neutral, with my foot on the brake before it would release.

clutch down? – in first? – noreleasey.

b*stard thing. good riddance. i fear the day they become standard.

Didn't BMW's have low friction tires and self drying brakes?! low friction tyres?! Obviously, they think their customers are thick as pig sh1t as well as sh1t drivers. Apparently, indicators are an optional extra on BMW's, they are now obsolete as no one ever had them fitted.

Whats the problem with low friction tyres? Ever heard of different rubber compounds? If you can have softer compounds for performance use then harder compounds can be developed that last longer and reduce fuel use. As long as you design the profile and tread correctly they'll still be safe.
And the self drying brakes – it is an electronic system that very briefly touches the pads onto the discs to force the water off, but not enough to provide any noticeable braking force. Voilà, you have brakes that respond the same in the wet as In the dry.

Both good ideas, don't you think?

ahwiles – sounds like you had a faulty one, or were doing something wrong. (My Passat is an 07 plate BTW, the dealer said something about the very first ones not being terribly good but it was quickly sorted)

Yeah, that doesn't sound right at all. I drove a Volvo with an electronic handbrake and thought it was ace, apart from the switch being a bit too far for me to reach to put it on. Just press the go pedal and it releases, no problem.

and i hope it goes without saying that the passat handbrake was totally useless for handbrake turns in the snow…

I really do love this thread. Makes me love my 106 even more.
All of those automatic features are to compensate an obvious lack of brain/thinking.
Oh and to had useless weight to the car. I says eventually keep the abs (but this one can be replace by training) but get rid of everything else. If you can't use a map/a gear stick/a light switch/windscreen whipers/ and so you really shouldn't be in a car.

Both good ideas, don't you think?

…no

So you think saving money on fuel and good wet weather braking are not good things?

[slaps forehead in complete amazement]

Wow.

[/slaps forehead in complete amazement]

If you can't use a map/a gear stick/a light switch/windscreen whipers/ and so you really shouldn't be in a car.

Do you honestly think that I can't do any of those things just because the car has the option to do them for me?

I'm not convinced that you are safer in your 106 driving along trying to read map while you're adjusting your wiper speed, turning on your headlights, changing radio station and peering through a fogged up windscreen.

All of those automatic features are to compensate an obvious lack of brain/thinking.

Manual features (for the clever people):

(pic from http://www.ashwooddesigns.me.uk )
 

Automatic features (for people lacking a brain):

(pic from http://www.hippyshopper.com )

Juan, I don't think auto wipers and lights add any weight, it's just another program in the ECU. No, they aren't essential, but neither is electronic ignition, independant suspension, folding seats, stereo's, syncro mesh gearboxes, power steering, fog lights, interior lights, padded seats, carpets, headlinings. But cars have most if not all of them. It just makes things easier, and if designed well, add to the safety and comfort of a vehicle so that the driver can concentrate on driving rather than fiddling with controls.
I personally couldn't see the point in auto wipers and light but then I drove an Astra with auto windscreen wipers and thought it worked really well. So, well, in fact, I hadn't noticed the system working. I could just see properly all the time. I certainly missed it going back to my own car.

GrahamS, I did chuckle at your analogy. 😆

you said it yourself, on a steep hill you have to press the button to release it, with your right hand, you've now taken both hands off the wheel…

why are you pressing the handbrake button at all. I've had the car for 4 months and not touched it once??? Are you putting on the autohold button to teh left of the gear stick after putting on your seatbelt and before trying to pull away???

I'm not convinced that you are safer in your 106 driving along trying to read map while you're adjusting your wiper speed, turning on your headlights, changing radio station and peering through a fogged up windscreen.

Well never get my screen fogged up I can adjust the heating to blow hot/warm air on the screen to get it de-fogged. Map I usually plan my trip ahead. Worst case I pull over and have a look to a map or "shocker" ask people for help/directions. If I have to use my wipers it means light are already on. I can't give a damn about radio station as once again i change the cd before I start the car.
All of the above just render people lazy and oblivious of their surroundings.

No, they aren't essential, but neither is electronic ignition, independant suspension, folding seats, stereo's, syncro mesh gearboxes, power steering, fog lights, interior lights, padded seats, carpets, headlinings. But cars have most if not all of them. It just makes things easier, and if designed well, add to the safety and comfort of a vehicle so that the driver can concentrate on driving rather than fiddling with controls.

To be fair all of what you describe is hardly changed/tune while driving. Head lining have a point in terms of safety if you are hit from the back buy someone. I was in a mate car once with electronic fancy whippers and they where just mad. Car got some drop of water from the condensation in a tunnel and they start working "until the water on the sensor dried" because obviously the sensor is out of reach from the wipers.

I drove WCA fancy merc once and it was buy far the worst driving experience i ever had. I almost crahed it on the car park because the car decided to go forwad on it's own. I had no control on plenty of stuff I had to think about how I would indicate as you have about 3 different mode (note I am not sure indicate is the concern of std merc drivers) plus I was so shield out from the outside world I found that dangerous.

I drove WCA fancy merc once and it was buy far the worst driving experience i ever had. I almost crahed it on the car park because the car decided to go forwad on it's own

You looked like you were loving it when you drove out of that car park! 😉

I'd imagine you just weren't used to 400bhp and an auto box after doing, ohh, 30 yards from the paking space!

Xan – i was using the rectangular button to the right of the steering wheel. the button was about the size of a playing card, sort of.

once more;

to release the 'handbrake' i needed to be in neutral, with my foot on the brake.

if a sensible person had designed it, it would release automatically as i pulled away. but clearly it was designed by a moron. and again i demand to see him beaten to death, with a cricket stump.

clutch in and 1st gear = no release.

where did i leave my cricket stumps?

X

You looked like you were loving it when you drove out of that car park!

Well that was a nervous grind 😉
Plus 400bhp on a 2 tonnes car doesn't give that much in terms of weight to power ratio 😉

Well never get my screen fogged up I can adjust the heating to blow hot/warm air on the screen to get it de-fogged.

So you have to fiddle about with knobs and levers to switch on the heating and direct it at the windscreen.

Whereas I just say "Demisting On" and it turns on front and rear demisters, turns on the AC, whacks the heat to maximum and directs it at the window. Dealt with. And I didn't even have to take my eyes off the road.

All of the above just render people lazy and oblivious of their surroundings.

No no it doesn't. I still know it's dark, even if I don't have turn a little dial to make the lights come on and I still know it's raining even if I didn't push a little stick to make the wipers come on.

To expand my previous analogy – are you unaware that your clothes are dirty because you use an automatic washing machine? And would a wooden wash dolly get them any cleaner?

Graham your analogy will only work if you car was taking you somewhere without any intervention of your part except turning the ignition on.
Which is hardly the case.

No I think it stands.

A washing machine still requires "driver input". You still need to separate your load, put in the correct amount of detergent and softener and then choose an appropriate cycle and temperature.

So you're still in effective control of the "journey" to clean clothes. It's just that most of the repetitive manual boring bits are taken away.

There's something to be said for the "de-skilling" argument, but IMHO it has more to do with maintaining the car (mechanics only replace sealed units half the time rather than fix something) than driving. I can choose whether to turn the lights on as I see fit or leave them in auto, normally I leave them in auto. If I want to override it for some reason (lights on in low sun for example) then I can.

No I think it stands.

I think it does not 😉
Once your washing machine is turned on you don't have anything to do. On the contrary to your car. The "preparing stuff is what you do before getting into your car, decided where to go which route to take where to stop for petrol (unless you let your super fancy car do it for you 😉 )etc etc.
But once you turn your car on it doesn't drive itself 😉

Lets agree to disagree

Grahams'car

Heart-Rate Monitor

Volvo's Personal Car Communicator monitors the cabin and pulses a light on your keyfob if your car has an unexpected visitor inside. TV ads show a woman approaching her S80 in a deserted parking garage, seeing the warning and hightailing it away. The thought of having this feature is scary in and of itself — not for fear of being carjacked, but because we wonder what sort of paranoia would drive you to want it. 😀

I really like my auto wipers as it means that on those time that you are passing a large truck/lorry/coach and it suddenly throws up a lot of spray the wipers clear it.

I was in a mate car once with electronic fancy whippers and they where just mad. Car got some drop of water from the condensation in a tunnel and they start working "until the water on the sensor dried" because obviously the sensor is out of reach from the wipers.

Nope never seen a car where the sensor is out of reach of the wipers as it would never work now would it.

And how is reducing the amount of extra things the driver has to think about whilst driving a bad thing?

Once your washing machine is turned on you don't have anything to do. On the contrary to your car

You're being a bit overly literal with my analogy here I think. The point is that the process of washing clothes involves a number of decision making and manual tasks. Automating some of those tasks doesn't mean my clothes are any less clean.

Surely the whole point of the electronic revolution is to try to remove trivial, repetitive and mundane things so we can spend more time doing more important things.

Even on your "manual" car I suspect you don't spend a lot of time worrying about the maintaining the correct oil pressure, managing the valve timing or whether you should have the choke in or out. All of which are genuinely skilled tasks that have been "dumbed down" by automation, rather than turning on the headlights which was already a dumb task.

Lets agree to disagree

Fair enough. Surrendered like a true frenchman 😉