cotic x vs genesis cdf vs surly straggler vs salsa vaya vs ???

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  • cotic x vs genesis cdf vs surly straggler vs salsa vaya vs ???
  • Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Subscriber

    what are you looking for? i might be parting with a X shortly.
    eddy in profile.

    gazc
    Member

    should have said – 56/58cm

    gazc
    Member

    looking at either of these to build up for commuting and general road/explore/child seat/trailer/shopping duties. it will replace both my kona jake the snake and surly cross check, both of which i am very fond of but sadly miss disc brakes. ideally frame only so rules out a new jake the snake (and i’d prefer steel anyway) and opens up a few more frames in the list. price is limited by how much i can sell current frames for and will need to factor in bb7 roads into that too

    moving soon so commute will change from present 2.5miles to 13miles of mainly gravel hardpack with tarmac sustrans routes/minor roads, but i want something i can take off into the hills whenever i fancy, load up with panniers or bikepacking gear, do the 3peaks on, take to the shops, ride a century on a random summer sunday etc… any one got any comparison experiences of the above (granted the straggler isn’t available yet but assume its like my cross check!) ta 🙂

    mattsccm
    Member

    I have said it once and I will say it again.
    Don’t buy a steel bike without riding it.
    Many modern steel bikes are made of not much more than gas pipe. They have some fancy name which means nothing and its impossible to get tube dimensions etc. Like many I use 531 as a classic standard. It was very nice but nowadays there is better. Buying some thing that is thick and heavy is pointless. Ride it to see how it feels. If it’s sweet then maybe you can forgive some chubbiness. Size matters.
    Most of these bikes are not especially well designed and don’t use different buttings for different sizes. A bigger frame will flex more and this may be nicer.
    As an example my Cotic X is lump. My bigger 531 frames weigh less and they have steel forks not carbon. My Kaffenback is lighter and rides nicer.
    Nowt wrong with the X , just not special.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    I’ve ridden everything from road to gravel farm tracks to random singletrack in the woods to Forestry Commission Red grade trails on my X. It is possibly a bit heavy, but I like it.

    gazc
    Member

    matt – appreciate that but it’s kind of difficult to do that when all the bike shops round here tend to stock alu bikes 🙂

    i like my cross check, ridden pretty much any surface bar DH trails on it – that’s the standard i’d like to either meet or better in terms of steel bike. i know it’ll be unlikely that anything i’ve mentioned will be as fast at the jake! 🙂

    i was considering the kaffenback but the 32mm max tyre size puts me off (i have some expensive winter spike tyres i use in winter and want the clearance)

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    As an example my Cotic X is lump. My bigger 531 frames weigh less and they have steel forks not carbon

    An X isn’t a heavy frame by modern standards. Is your 531 frame skinny tubes, 25.4-28.6? That’d be the difference. Will ride quite differently too. 531 tends to be revered by some but others would find it too flexy. Oversize came about for a good reason for some, others talk about ‘gas pipe’.

    Premier Icon miketually
    Subscriber

    If you like your Crosscheck, get a Straggler?

    gazc
    Member

    yes i do – but i also like my jake the snake too (which the cross check is not) hence the thread 🙂

    OCB
    Member

    Peregrine?
    Easily the most versatile bike I own, [mine] gets ridden on pretty much everything, and does so perfectly happily.

    Premier Icon Teetosugars
    Subscriber

    Love my Vaya, its got to be said.

    IanW
    Member

    This must be the segment of 2014 with spech bringing the AWOL to the party all the stuff already mentioned, the Charge Plugs also look good as does all their range this year.

    I must admit as a do it all bike I’m liking the Cannondale caadx or caad 8 and or the Merida cross 4 , no better reason than they have horizontal top tubes !?

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    By god that Vaya is nice. 😕

    So is your hall floor… 🙂

    mattsccm
    Member

    My X has done about 9K miles almost totally on gravel. Well 90%. Still going strong. Daft design features in places but lets call that character.
    Yes my 531 was narrower than modern steel but that’s to the good as it is lighter but nice and stiff. As a comparison both my X and Kaff flex more than the 531 frame around the BB. Used the same chainset on all of them and guess which one doesn’t rub when honking? Stiff is good but heavy isn’t so bigger tubes need to be thinner.
    Oversize came with thinner tubes or lighter materials . I know damn well the X seat tube isn’t for example. Not knocking modern steel, just saying that a lot of it is nothing special. I am damn sure that those nice Genesis bike for example are lovely.
    I am looking at the Plug myself as I want a road bike with disc but there is not a lot in a spec I like. Still waiting( it will be a long one I guess) for Charge to let me know frame weights.
    I want steel but not at the expense of weight. I have that.
    Don’t let me put you off a Cotic, it does ride well. No idea about the steel fork though as mine came carbon as standard in early 2011.
    Of course Ti would be nice and I am waiting for this thing from Evans that was quietly mentioned in another thread. (Hopes it is bright) 😆

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    I’d take a punt matt that the 531 and the X, genesis etc are the about the same wall thicknesses, 9-6-9 mainly. Some 8-5-8 maybe. These OS tubes used now aren’t usually thinner, generally can’t be (usefully) much thinner in >28.6 OD, so you gain stiffness and weight.

    All that aside, the Straggler looks like fun. Odd dropout but could be useful.

    mattsccm
    Member

    Sounds about right. The 531 c is .8/.5 DB.
    Its partly the thought of things. How can a new frame with a sloping 54cm TT and a shorter seat tube plus carbon fork weigh noticeably more than a 56cm horizontal TT frame plus steel fork.
    Its got to be a drop in quality. Price I suppose.
    Now howabout those top f the range Plugs anyone?

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    One passes CEN and has to, the other may not and didn’t have to then.
    I don’t know much about the X but I doubt it’s a poor quality cr-mo frame. The better factories in TW tend to make good quality stuff.

    Premier Icon Ben_H
    Subscriber

    I have an X and have lifted most of the following from another thread:

    I bought the frame in January 2012 and transferred the majority of parts across from a Kinesis Convert2, which I chopped due to having weedy road rim brakes. My X is a Mk2, meaning it takes 160mm rear discs, but doesn’t have top pannier rack mounts.

    I guess most people buy frames from the web nowadays, relying on reviews and generally being quite happy with what they get. Personally, I could see myself happy with a CdF, Peregrine or Kaffenback – they’re all subtly different takes on the same theme, although at a wide range of prices.

    The finish of the frame is great and, despite an iffy road.cc review (balanced by lots of positive ones), I’ve found it rides perfectly for my needs as a workhorse and tourer with occasional gravel roads thrown in. It’s worth noting that I’ve had trouble fitting a pannier rack due to the positioning of a BB5 calliper – the pannier mounts only work without discs and I can’t even make my Tubus QR axle adapter fit to get around this. You shouldn’t have this problem with any frame that has the disc mount inboard.

    I’ve searched for references about the X’s weight and can only find Cy’s forum posts saying it’s 4.1 lb for a Medium. The Roadrat is 4.4 lb-ish, so I guess that’s credible. Either way, it’s definitely among the lighter steelies, probably because it’s shorter than the others.

    The best and worst thing about the bike is that it has accidentally become my main bike. It’s so versatile that I’m doing ten hours on it for every hour I spend on my Cotic Soul. It seems a bit perverse to be spending most of my time on a workhorse when I have nicer kit in the shed.

    Despite this, the X just works so well even wearing relatively humble kit. It also looks very good in real life – I get a lot of compliments.

    The drivetrain is a 9-speed mix of Tiagra 4500 shifters, 105 5700 34/50T chainset, 105 mechs, XT chain and SLX 11-32 cassette. Wheels are XT M756 hubs and Conti GP 4 Season 28c tyres on Mavic TN719 rims. Brakes are BB5s and finishing is Easton EA50. It weighs under 23 lbs and, although I’m tempted, I think I’ve reached point of diminishing returns in terms of upgrades.

    You’ll see that Cotic only have the 58cm frame left and I hear a whisper than the X will be replaced with something else. I was thinking of a Roadrat in replacement, but if Cotic do a “Y” with proper pannier mounts then I will definitely go for that.

    mattsccm
    Member

    Apologies to Charge. An email popped up. 23 and a bit lbs for a medium Plug 5 sans pedals.

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    we all mention what we have, so LHT?

    lardy
    hefty
    offroadable
    onroadable
    loadable
    kiddyseatable
    trailerable
    tuffer than a tuff thing

    mattsccm
    Member

    For what its worth I used a Topeak disc rack on the rear and it went straight on. Mine only has 1 set of lower mounts.
    Are the newer ones different?
    No top rack mounts on mine but it was an early one. I used a combined seat pin clamp, rack mount for a tour of the Hebrides.
    Wish I had bought Orange now but it will need a repaint soon.
    Actually the lacquer is very soft. Masses of scratches in days. Paint seem fine beneath it, just looks tatty.
    Small ones are not much use with normal bottle bosses as you can’t get two bottles in without bending the top cage and the bottom bottle is trapped. Side openers are fine and actually more secure.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)

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