Tried someone's Cotic BFE today, which was very nice and has convinced me to get a steel hardtail frame. BFe is top of the list, but I can't help thinking I'd be better off with the Soul, especially as I won't run it with forks any longer than 140mm.
Has anyone any experience of both bikes?
No, but I like my BFe; although it is built quite heavy (probably 30 lbish) with RS Revs / Hope EN521s maxxis HR / Advantage, heavy seatpost and bars with Hope Mono Minis I reckon that 3-4lb could easily be knocked off weight without too much issue. From what I know 140mm is top of Soul reccomended travel, but midpoint on BFe>>> BFe being a more versatile frame if you changed your riidng style. Therefore IMO a BFe coudl be a better long term frame for you??
In terms of riding v my other hardtail (van Nic Ti zion) despite extar weight over the VN I reckon BfE climbs faster and is much more solid and robust feeling. More secure to ride.
Hope this helps, Im sure youll get plenty of other thoughts on this one! 
I think you should make your decision on what sort of riding you do or intend to do rather than fork length. If it's xc (and the soul can handle a lot more then you think) then save the weight and get a soul, if you plan on throwing it around a bit then the BFe is fantastic.
Getting onto forks I run my BFe with pikes which i think is plenty for a HT.
Cheers for the replies. I think I'm going to go with the BFe...
Ahh I love my bfe, if it would fit under my pillow I would put it there every night..
I've got a BFe and a Soul - oddly enought they're both built up at pretty much the same weight (30lb) at the moment. The Soul has coil Pikes and a mostly XT drivetrain, and the BFe has Talas forks, an SLX drivetrain and lighter XT wheels and tyres (it's on Purgatory/Storm and the Soul is on Eskars). The main difference actually riding the two bikes at the moment is that the BFe is a small and the Soul a medium (and with a longer stem). That makes the Soul a more composed climber and the BFe more fun to chuck about.
Normally the Soul is built up a bit lighter than that (120mm Floats etc.) but I nicked all the bits of it to rebuild my Enduro and then built it back up with what I had lying around. I find that the Soul actually suits the 120mm forks and a lightish (27lbs or so) build better, and built like that it's a fantastic general purpose hardtail.
Like jamesb I've actually also got a Van Nic Zion - mine using Fox F90's and currently at about the 24lb mark (although it's been down nearer 22lbs when I borrowed the wheels and tyres from my Epic). Unlikely jamesb I find my Zion a much, much better climber than the BFe (not that the BFe is particularily bad) - partly due to the lighter build and partly due to a longer top tube. The BFe is a lot more fun and a lot more confidence inspiring on the descents though.
Most people solve this conundrum in one of two ways; either they do what (the very inspired) Epicsteve has done and get one of each, with the BFe being a size smaller than normal for razzing around one, or they get the one they can afford, i.e. if they can afford the Soul they get that and if they can't they buy the BFe.
I suspect (and this is based on nothing more than suspicion) that people who have a BFe won't have bought it as their only bike.
There is a chap on there called John who rides a small BFe, medium Soul and Soda. He's pretty tasty and you should see the things he gets away with on his Soul. It's no freeride bike, but it's pretty bloody strong so really if you can afford the extra cash, then that's the one to get.
What I probably should have said above is that, as much as I like my BFe, if I only had to keep one of the two it'd be the Soul.
What sort of riding are you doing?
Unless you ride downhill tracks or dirt jumps, get the soul
did cy not say that since that since the redesign that the soul and bfe were just as strong as each other? it's just that the bfe uses cheaper and heavier materials yo achieve the strength? was sure i read that somewhere
did cy not say that since that since the redesign that the soul and bfe were just as strong as each other? it's just that the bfe uses cheaper and heavier materials yo achieve the strength? was sure i read that somewhere
Doubt it, theres a pound more metal in the BFe frame, I reckon that means its a fair bit stronger. Plus its warrantied for longer forks
I test rode a Soda today... that is all.
I had my first ride on my newly built up 06 Soul today and was blown away by how nicely it rode. I wound the Pikes down to 130mm and the geometry felt spot on, i usually ride a five built up a bit heavier duty with coil shock and 36 vans on the front and thought i'd struggle to get used to a hardtail again especially on some of my rockier, rougher trails but the Soul never missed a beat today and i had just as much fun, if not more than i would if i'd taken the five out.
Only downside is that it's got me worried just how much use the five's going to get!
As for the original question it depends on your budget and riding style, i think the soul is plenty tough enough but if you want to use it for full on downhill as well as a trail bike then possibly go for the bfe but i doubt either choice will be a bad one.
If you have to ask, then you need a Soul.
messiah - MemberI test rode a Soda today... that is all.
not quite.. what did you think of it. Nice innit?
poppa - MemberIf you have to ask, then you need a Soul.
Hmm that is an astute observation.
Do you ride DH, 4X, dirt jumping or freeride?
If so, get the BFE. If not, get the soul. Obviously bike choice is a personal choice, but there seems to be an awfull lot of people dragging around the extra weight of a BFE on the trails.
The Soda was lovely to ride and I can see why Cotic bikes have such a great reputation for handling. I had a few "issues" with the demo bike components and the trail conditions which limited what I could do (was willing to do) with it but I got out of the ride the information I wanted. It was great to compare the Soda with my Whyte 19 Steel - very interesting comparison.
The Fox F120 forks were a great match. A longer fork would help the front end a bit as the bike tended to stall a little when thrown at things my slacker Whyte (and Nicolai) plough through, but making the seat angle any slacker would make climbing steep and gnar very tricky - the climb/descend dilema. The Forks completely out-class the Reba SL's I have on my Whyte 19 despite being QR rather than 20mm bolt through (But I would still go 15/20mm everytime).
Feel wise the Ti is definetly closer to steel than it is to Al (in my opinion and experience). Under power and sprinting it's a bit stiffer round the BB than my Whyte 19 steel and yet it keeps the pingy back end feel. Lovely, and what I look for in a hardtail.
Summary - steel is budget Ti, or Ti is blow the budget steel 
The difference in cash is a lot to spend to reduce weight, but if you have the cash it seems a shame not to make the most of it... Nae pockets in a shroud 
.
Back to the BFe and Soul question - for XC type work it has to be the Soul unless you can only afford the BFe. If your wanting to stick a big fork on it and hoon then it has to be the BFe - if you want to be able to do both then the BFe with two forks or an adjustable fork would be the way to go - and you also get the option of an uppy downy post that way as the Soul is 27.2 and the BFe 31.6 - but it will make for a heavier bike (another compromise 
).
Whichever you chose you'll not be going far wrong - superb handling bikes (IMHO of course 
).
wheelz - Member
Cheers for the replies. I think I'm going to go with the BFe...
<blatant plug>
I've got a brand new BFe inc. Cane Creek S1 headset that I'm selling if you're interested. Medium (16") gritstone with white decal wrap. I bought it from an STW member a few months ago and never got around to building it up...plans have now changed. I'm selling it for £275 inc. postage (which is exactly what I paid). I think the frame & headset combo is £395 new.
</blatant plug>
Cheers,
Rusty
Rusty if he doesn't want it I'll most likely take it! Email is in my profile if it's still available
Tom, just pinged you an email.
Messiah - thought that a Soda would be, er, a little fragile for you though no?
I do like that if you have to ask you need a Soul. says it all really!
Had both.
A soul with Pikes and BFe with Lyriks.
Sold them both and bought a new Soul with new Rev teams. Does all I need.
BFe was great when the teraain required it to be, the faster you went the better it was.
Although the Soul even on Lakeland rocky descents is great.
The new BFe is supposed to sit somewhere between the Soul and old BFe.
The old one was the one I had (now it's epic steves).
The Soul is more than capable for most riders, it all depends on what fork length you expect to be using, If you see yourself using a 160mm then the BFe is the one.
it all depends on what fork length you expect to be using, If you see yourself using a 160mm then the BFe is the one.
Nah, it all depends on what sort of riding you'll be doing. Riding dirt jumps on 160mm forks would be silly.
BFe is stronger and stiffer (as well as a bit heavier). The heavier bit is relative though, its weight is competitive with most of the other steel hardtails out there, just not with the Soul.
metalheart - yes and no... I'll make a list!
1. The brakes were the real ride killer as they simply did not perform when required in the gnar.
2. The super lite KCNC "flex" stem was worrysome when honking on the super wide 710mm bars - which work ace a hardtail like this by the way
3. The seat post which allowed the saddle to move backwards by itself cought me out a few times... the bike kept getting longer.
4. For some reason the usually wonderful Hope QR allowed the seatpost to drop no matter how hard I tightened it up.
5. Maxxis Larson rear tyre - was actually better than expected... but I was not expecting much.
Conditions were so claggy it soon gained a few lbs worth of Fe-y's finest dubs so it rode like a heavier bike anyway.
Damn, I knew I should have checked this thread before ringing Cy and ordering a new BFe! Looks like I missed out there Rusty.
Messiah: aye brakes were, well, gash. Joe did warn me about them. The bars were nice. Run 27" normally so surprised to find bike feeling long with a shorter stem than usual. Larsen wasn't bad either although it did loose traction more easily than cinders/high rollers.
Wheelz: welcome to the Cotic Club...
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