It’s long overdue, I realise, but I felt it was time to update you on the Rocket situation even if there’s not much to say, unfortunately.
First things first, we are no longer working with BML. Mike and I got to the point where we couldn’t agree on how to move it forward in a way that worked for both Cotic and BML, and we haven’t been working with him since 5th September. The reason why I didn’t say anything at the time is that, as with anything involved in a partnership, there was a lot of things to sort out legally and financially and I wanted to be clear of all that before saying anything further. Since then I’ve been doing everything I can to make it happen, finding new fabricators to work with, adjusting the design and processes to work better with them, trying to get final prototypes made, but we’re still not there and we still don’t have a definitive frame design signed off.

As for where we go from here, we still don’t know for sure. We know there are Rockets in our future, we love the bike and we’re desperate to get them back on sale, but realistically, regardless of where or how we get them made we are months and months away from having anything on sale. One thing for sure is that it won’t be a 26″ wheel frame. It’s not that we think they’re rubbish, or anything like that. Quite the opposite. My main bike is my Rocket 26. But commercial reality has to have a bearing on this, and although it was completely beyond our control, the wholesale adoption of the 27.5″ wheel has made the situation more difficult for us.

The main problem from a practical point of view is that to package the 27.5″ wheel the frame has much more in common with the 29er prototype we had made in Taiwan, and that 29er wasn’t right. It didn’t have enough stiffness and needed improvements which would read across to the 27.5″. Developing processes, tooling and construction techniques to make the 26″ wheel frame which was effectively very different from the larger wheel frames we know we need for the future made less and less sense as time has gone by. It was never just a case of making an identical frame to the Taiwanese version, because they are set up to make parts of the frame in ways which are very expensive or prohibitively difficult to do over here.

Trying to get things made over here is the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do, and to know that not achieving it has let so many people down really hurts. This has been the most stressful, most difficult year of my life. We’re still working on the project, and we will see where it takes us. It might be that in the end we have to go back to Taiwan and get them made there again. Regardless of where it’s made it’s a great bike which we have spent an awfully long time developing and we want people out there riding them. UK made would be great, but if we find out it doesn’t make sense on any cost or quality grounds then we can’t keep chasing a dream.
On the flipside of all this, we’ve had a great year with the hardtails and the best year ever on commuter bikes. We still have a great relationship with our suppliers in Taiwan and continue to do great things with them with all our non-suspension products. Thanks to everyone who has bought one this year, and all the years we’ve been doing this. We love that you love Cotic bikes and we love hearing about it. It makes us keep on keeping on!

Cheers,

Cy

Well written Cy. Still riding an >X< and a Solaris thanks to Cotic 🙂

Hope the Rocket dream works out…

Just get em made in Taiwan…..no bugger gives a toss where they are made anymore.

Got to feel for them, it can’t have been easy making some of those decisions. They seem a nice bunch and I’m certainly pleased with the Solaris I bought earlier in the year. It’s brilliant.

The Rocket has caused such a headache for Cy. Amazing how difficult it can be to bring one product to market in the UK.

Why not have hardtails built in Uk, full sus in Taiwan?

er…

You have to feel for them, they tried to create a British product made here and it hasn’t quite worked out. Get them built in Taiwan and get the sales back in and maybe try again with a hardtail built over here to start with.

It’s a real shame. Looks like it’ll be 27.5 when it finally arrives..

when it finally arrives..

if

🙁

I wonder if he could fit a 140mm 27.5 in there without having to split the seat tube? Or if not, how much the travel would have to be reduced?

Sounds like the move to 150mm 27.5 is giving headaches.

So despite the fact that the 26″ is the best option, they’re going to try and amend a poor 29″ to suit. Come on cy, plough your own furrow. If the 26 is the best bike, then make it!

If the 26 is the best bike, then make it!

he wants to sell them, not just make them…

I had been hoping they’d buck the trend and stick with 26″. It would become a niche bike which is what Cotic started out doing and would appeal to all the people who haven’t swallowed the 27.5 BS. Come on Cy, go with your heart! So long as 26″ rims and tyres are still available there will be demand.

he wants to sell them, not just make them…

People want the best bike though, do they not?

I’d prefer 26” over a modified 29er to fit 27.5”. Sounds like an afterthought.

People want the best bike though, do they not?

People want a bike they perceive will have new models of fork developed for it etc and, frankly, they believe that 650B is the way forward to get the best bike.

Even very large manufacturers who were ‘never’ going to switch to 650B are doing so.

Cy would be daft to try and develop and sell a new 26″ bike in the current marktet. Even if things go well and he could start production in Taiwan soon it’d be May or June next year before he had anything to sell.

Cy would be daft to try and develop and sell a new 26″ bike in the current marktet.

Have I missed something? Does he need to develop a 26″ bike? I thought he’d done that?
Get 50 or 100 made up and see how they go.
In the mean time, carry on developing the 27.5 (from the ground up).
Judging from what I read all over the place (particularly the UK), there is still very much an appetite for 26″.

So despite the fact that the 26″ is the best option, they’re going to try and amend a poor 29″ to suit. Come on cy, plough your own furrow. If the 26 is the best bike, then make it!

Thing is, if no one buys it?

I still suspect that 26″ aint dead was to some extent or another 26″ stock ain’t shifted yet

I have nothing against 26″ bikes, some of my best friends still ride them, but I’d not buy another small wheeled bike after swapping to a 29er for my main bike, it’s just better. If that’s difficult to package into all frame styles I’ll take the biggest wheels I can get before it becomes too much of a comprimise, which for most seems to be 650b.

And he doesn’t actualy say the 26″ bike is better only “it won’t be a 26″ wheel frame. It’s not that we think they’re rubbish, or anything like that. Quite the opposite. My main bike is my Rocket 26. Bikes don’t get worse with time (wear and tear excepted), but new oens do get developed which are better (or very occasionaly worse).

Get 50 or 100 made up and see how they go.

and if they don’t? For a small business it could mean a big cash hole and problems. He could go down the kickstarter route like Sam has but that’s fraught with difficulty too.

Given he had some problems with the original Rocket production I think it’s not just a case of clicking a button and handing over £50k to get another 100 frames made. It’s not development from scratch but it’s not an off the shelf purchase either.

but I’d not buy another small wheeled bike after swapping to a 29er for may main bike, it’s just better.

Funny old world. I hate 29ers, I just think they’re not very good. Great for an XC racer, not so good for the rest of us.

And he doesn’t actualy say the 26″ bike is better

But he does say;

the 27.5″ wheel the frame has much more in common with the 29er prototype we had made in Taiwan, and that 29er wasn’t right. It didn’t have enough stiffness and needed improvements which would read across to the 27.5″.

Read into it what you like, it seems to me like he’s saying that the 29 isn’t very good at present, and the 26 is.

27.5″ front, 26 Rear ?

it seems to me like he’s saying that the 29 isn’t very good at present, and the 26 is.

I agree.

He’s still not going to start selling 26″ Rocket’s again though.

I read the update earlier, spoken from the heart as always.

No 26 means no sale to me although to be honest if I bought anything it would be a used Bandit.

Years ago I met the original owner of Saracen, he told me how although he loved the idea of UK built bikes when he went over and saw the Taiwan factory there was no contest, it was better quality work and cheaper. There are some things which require scale and bike manufacture is one of them, a big factory will have the infrastructure and scale to make good bikes and in smaller run sizes too. He told me a story about how in the UK you had to submit technical drawings to the manufacturer and they would come back in a month with a quote, in Taiwan you gave them a sketch and they came back to the hotel in the morning with a prototype.

Read into it what you like, it seems to me like he’s saying that the 29 isn’t very good at present, and the 26 is.

Except the Cotic enduro team riders chose to race the 29er prototype rather than the 26 Rocket…

Hands up how many people actually want to buy a 26″ frame, with their own money at around £1.5k now?

Not just if you think it’d be cool if a someone was making them, or you would “if you were in the market”.

Actually quite relieved to see he’s not persisting with 26″ because I’d like to see the company survive and thrive if possible.

Except the Cotic enduro team riders chose to race the 29er prototype rather than the 26 Rocket…

Except he’s still saying it’s not good enough to sell.

You should call and tell him if you know better though, he’ll probably be really pleased.

My hand would be up for a 26″ frame* and I am pretty sure most of the people I ride with would as well.

It may well be that a smaller company like cotic could fill the niche for people still wanting 26″ stuff ?

* Not that I will be buying a frame any time soon.

He’s still not going to start selling 26″ Rocket’s again though.

It’s his business, and it’s quite easy for me to sit here with nothing at risk and tell him to carry on making the 26’s.

You should call and tell him if you know better though, he’ll probably be really pleased.

Yep, you should definately do this.

Hands up how many people actually want to buy a 26″ frame, with their own money at around £1.5k now?

Well I’d rather not pay £1.5k but if that’s what a Bandit frame cost then perhaps. I keep my bikes a long time, that’s why I am not in the market. If all I can buy is 275 I’ll be riding these bikes until everything breaks like the wheels and forks etc.

To be a little harsh 26 Rockets were selling, Cotic just couldn’t get them made to the right quality. What Cy has said is the dynamic has changed now and going 26 only is too risky

My hand would be up for a 26″ frame*

* Not that I will be buying a frame any time soon

These two statements tend to go hand in hand! 😉

I hope the Rocket returns, with whatever wheel size, and if does then UK manufacture would be nice. It may be that a relatively mass-market product like this is just too expensive to manufacture in the UK with locally available methods and setting up a more efficient factory is just too big a leap for a small company.

I’m glad I stopped waiting last autumn and really glad the bike I bought instead has proven to be brilliant! But it would be nice to see more Rockets out there, wherever they come from.

Feel for them but they make great hardtails and my solaris is a great bike 🙂

It was always a noble aspiration to bring frame building back to the UK (creating jobs/skills etc.), but aside from that, I don’t think the consumer is hugely bothered if the frame is from Far Eastern supply. We know those countries have an unarguably skilled labour force, particularly when producing carbon layups through proprietary molding processes. It must be frustrating though, being a designer in the UK and having to work within time and technological restraints imposed by oversees manufacturing.

My sympathies are with Cy – ultimately this is his livelihood as well as his passion. His business must compete effectively and make a profit. I don’t think the 26” is commercially dead (I certainly hope not) – would I rest my pension on that belief though – no, I wouldn’t.

I’d probably buy a 26″ rocket if he did a limited run… not in the market for 27.5 for some time tho

I really appreciated his honesty tbh. He tried…it failed. Can’t blame him for his attempt.

As for the 27.5 thing, well him and Paul presumably have family to support, so sticking with 26″ could be a gamble not only with the business, but also to those they hold most dear.

This sucks for cy and all those who originally ordered a rocket all that time ago.

IMHO he Has to go 27.5 now because of the market. What I don’t understand (sure there’s a good reason) is why he didn’t get a batch of Taiwan rockets made soon after the first batch. He must have had enough pre orders to order another run and at the time, the rocket buzz was huge and the 27.5 move hadn’t really happened.

I love my bandit but I’m a real Cotic fan and I’d have had the min rocket like a shot instead if it had been available, but that’s a whole other story I guess

wrecker – Member

Read into it what you like, it seems to me like he’s saying that the 29 isn’t very good at present, and the 26 is.

The 29er’s proved itself pretty well in proto form tbh. “It’s not right” doesn’t mean “it’s not very good”- it could equally mean “It’s going to be very good… But it’s not right, yet”. Or even “It’s already very good but it’s going to be better” The Hemlock was very good, but wasn’t right until a few revs were in.

Cy might very well think the 26 is a great bike, but he’s already got one, he doesn’t need any more in his shed. For whatever reason, 650b is the thing now, he’d be a mug to make another 26er without guaranteed pre-orders, and he can’t take pre-orders til the manufacturing’s 100% sorted so it’s catch 22. Just about every other manufacturer’s got out of 26 inch wheels and he has more reason than most.

I hope it works out.

When a self confessed 26″ fan says he won’t be making a 26″ x you know the game’s up so all those saying they’ll never buy anything but 26″ should get ready for a long wait. Must admit I’m surprised how quickly things have changed but can’t say I’m all that bothered.

I hope Cotic can get this sorted as they seem like a good, honest company. Shows why the likes of Orange struggle to meet certain price points or embrace stuff like carbon.

Must admit I’m surprised how quickly things have changed but can’t say I’m all that bothered.

Same here. I just replaced my bike with another 26″ last year, and there were only a couple of 650b options on the shortlist then!
But I usually keep bikes for a several years, and I don’t keep a shed full of spendy bits tying me to a particular size, so as long as I can get parts (which I don’t think will be a problem) I’ll just ride what I’ve got till it’s replacement time and then I guess I’ll just choose from whatever the standard is then.

Anyhoo, it would be a heart over head thing for Cotic to insist on flying the flag for 26″ at this point. They’ve no real option but to go 650 IMO.

The 29er’s proved itself pretty well in proto form tbh. “It’s not right” doesn’t mean “it’s not very good”- it could equally mean “It’s going to be very good… But it’s not right, yet”. Or even “It’s already very good but it’s going to be better” The Hemlock was very good, but wasn’t right until a few revs were in.

A bit selective. He said a bit more than “it’s not right” and if it’s not good for more than a few races then it’s worthless in the marketplace