I know there’ll be endless threads on this type of thing, but I’m just after some quick alternatives to compare/contrast?

I’m thinking about a bike for a spot of road riding (nothing serious, no Lycra), up and down the prom, some light bridleways and fire roads. It will also serve as a bike for pulling the little one round in a trailer. I don’t think I want drop bars so I’m really liking the look of the roadrat.

Does a roadrat represent good value at a grand and what alternatives should I be looking at?

Watching with interest, I had a look over one in Soho bikes and it looked good to me (Cotic owner and fan but mtb-er only), have been thinking about a Escapade as it happens.

Cheaper option might be a tourer

I’d not thought of that as a category to look at.

As far as the roadrat goes, I like that it’s described as being a mountain bikers ideal other bike. I want something that feels familiar but is more suited to lighter riding. I like the idea of it being a bit “burlier” than a hybrid/commuter style. I like the idea of having something that will last a long time and is worth tweaking as time goes on. Plus I figure the cotic will retain some value and it’s a damn fine looking thing!

I don’t mind spending the money if it’s on the right thing, but something cheaper would be nice!!

I was going to suggest the cheaper but not so nice Kaffenback with flat bars but it looks like the Kaffenback has gone from the PX shop.

Cheers, Steve

Love my Escapade also liked the idea of a longer Roadrat but I think drop bars are best for day long rides. There’s not much better out there that’s considerably better for the money so it’s a win/win if you also like the branding.

Kaffenback looks a good shout, but appears to be out of stock. Anyone know the pricing?

My drop bar Sram Apex Kaff was £649. (special offer)

On-One has the drop bar Kaff listed still.

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBPXKAFFAPEX/planet-x-kaffenback-sram-apex-road-bike

Cheers, Steve

I like my Roadrat (new version), but it’s a bit flexy with a full pannier bag and downright noodle-y with a FollowMe tandem…

I’ve owned both the Escapade (built as a singlespeed) and the Roadrat (Alfine) and much preferred the Escapade. It just felt better all round and that’s coming from a guy who normally only rides mtb. The Escapade was just more fun and could cope with fire roads easily enough. Didn’t think I’d like the drops, but they are so versatile when covering longer distances. Considering it had one gear and was steel it could really shift too.

They were both used for daily commuting, exploring and general messing around. Never tried attaching a trailer to either of them though. I broke my radius falling off the Rat, so that might go someway towards explaining why I don’t have fond memories of it.

loving my escapade. using for on road/ lanes exploring and linking up with gravel roads and bridleways. have been pulling a child trailer (single) on gravel fire rds and it flies!

its been a great bike. the original conti file tread tyres are bombproof so far and good on anything but mud.

im loving it just wish i bought the 11sp 105 with the hydro brakes.

Another Escapade lover here. Used mine primarily for road rides including a 200k audax and coped fine with keeping up with the carbon. Currently riding mine on canal towpaths and disused railway lines with travel contacts on and loving it.

I had a Roadrat a few years ago. I wouldn’t want to pull a starlet with mine for two very important reasons.
1) Too flexy. Even with just panniers and me on it mine was all over the place
2) Horizontal dropouts. Aside from issues removing the back wheel with mudguards on, if your trailer attaches to the QR or axle in some way you’ll be constantly pulling the back wheel out or moving it over

They might be different now, but IMO, if not, it’s not suitable. Get a Genesis CdF instead. Far better bike.

Does anyone else have a road rat that when you take the hands off the bars the handle bars go mental ?

[Quote]Horizontal dropouts. Aside from issues removing the back wheel with mudguards on, if your trailer attaches to the QR or axle in some way you’ll be constantly pulling the back wheel out or moving it over[/quote]

None of that is an issue. Did it all with mine with no issue

I had the drop bar roadrat. I’m a massive cotic fanboi but I didn’t really like it at all, it was capable but hefty and pretty uninspiring. Didn’t hate it either but I guess I was just hoping for more… replaced it with a flat barred Boardman to do the same job and it kind of spectacularily kicks its arse.

So now I’m considering 3/4 bikes as mentioned, but I don’t really know which presents the best VFM.

Roadrat/escapade, Kaffenback or Genesis CdF. They’re all less than a grand so are all possible C2W buys.

Given I’ve never considered a bike like this before and know nothing about road bike components, what should I be looking out for/avoiding!? Does it even matter? Or is it down to which one feels and fits the nicest!?

The Genesis is tubeless ready which is a positive to me and would be the only one I could sit on before purchase.

Current model Cotic Roadrat owner here. I love it, lots of character, I like the flexyness! I’ve never towed a trailer but I’m sure it would be fine and it’s perfect for everything else you mention.

Pinnacle Lithium is worth a look too.

Kaffenback is cheap but lacks tyre clearance and isn’t as nicely finished as the Cotic.

I’ve have / had (it’s for sale in the classifieds) an Escapade since March 2014.

If you look back though my posts, you’ll see what a versatile frame it is and how much I’ve enjoyed it. I was using it for 90% of my riding, which lead me to “split” it into two bikes: a proper road bike and a flat-bar commu-tourer.

I’ve run the Escapade with flat bars since March and found it just a touch too short. I mulled replacing it with a Roadrat, but was put off only by the idea of replacing it with such a similar frame.

In the end, I’ve gone with a Surly Ogre. It’s a much heavier and less lively frame (although very versatile in a different, more MTB-focused way): the Escapade F&F are at least a kilo lighter!

I did not like the roadrat. Between that and a Krampus my utter and total hatred on sliding dropouts has been truly cemented.

Also very flexy – I am fat and tall, and for me it was just a hideous noodly thing. Fully laoded was horrible – fast corners were hugely sphincter tightening.

Except the forks, which were stiff as buggery and transmitted every bump perfectly. arses.

Hateful machine!

Why restrict yourself to steel frames? For instance as Northwind points out Boardman make some good bikes and their hybrid looks like it would fill your needs. Also Whyte have some really funky looking commuter bikes, which again would do what you wanted.

Also see: Pinnacle Arkose.

Just checked out the whyte lineup and they do look nice. But I don’t really feel the need for a suspension fork and I’m starting to think more about drop bars and longer road rides. I also feel (probably incorrectly) that the bikes I’m looking at will remain more desirable for future resale.

Pinnacle’s are nice to, and cheap! But now I really don’t know what I’m looking at, feels like an even bigger step away from the mtb’s that I’m used to.

I had one. Felt ok. Nothing special for hacking around/commuting on.

Have a Verenti Substance CX bike now for doing the same thing on and it does the job as well. Full bike cost the same as a RR frame, fork and wheels. For hacking around on and leaving at the station etc, its spot on.

http://www.marinbikes.com/gb/blog/introducing-the-2017-nicasio

The Roadrat is supposed to be a bit flexy – it certainly isn’t designed to be or intended to be a super stiff racer. OK if you’ve got racks on and load it up as a tourer the you might be pushing the boundaries – i’m not sure it is intended to be a full on tourer either.

Had mine for 4 years as a daily commuter. It wasn’t until I got a Charge Grater as a replacement I realized how crap the roadrat was. Way too flexy to ride properly, not terribly light and generally uninspiring. If you pulled the front brake on hard the handlebar would do its best to twist away. Cotic fanboi here (Soul)

I think I’ve been talked out of the roadrat now, there’s been quite a few negative comments so far!

Marin looks nice

I’ll throw a pic of my Arkose up in case it helps 😉

I have an older roadrat:

pros
– very fun to ride
– very versatile I have ridden it geared,fixed,singlespeed flat bar, drops, off road, as monster cross bike etc..
– frame “flex” makes for a comfy ride
– looks different to bland road bikes

cons
– Heavy – over 10.5kg even as singlespeed with lightish components.
– handling feels odd at times, but might be because I have drops on the long rat.
– chain tug / mech hanger is a right pain, I really hate it

My escapade is a hoot.

Versatility wise, last week i did an XC race on it and i’ll be doing a TT on it soon 😀

It has the Hamax bracket on there for the child seat and full guards. It’s brilliant, you can get down some seriously steep sketchy stuff on it too.

http://www.marinbikes.com/gb/blog/introducing-the-2017-nicasio

That looks ace.

I’m really happy with my Escapade, although I’m not expecting it to be race bike stiff, or touring bike strong. It’s just a really pleasant thing for doing a 10 mile commute, or a ride around the lanes.

Stop mucking about and get a CX bike. Job done.

Kaff’s are down the £599 atm.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXKAFFAPEX/planet-x-kaffenback-sram-apex-final-countdown-edition-road-bike?utm_source=The+Planet+X+and+On-One+Mailing+List&utm_campaign=b483a5eaa5-190616&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_561486488b-b483a5eaa5-271150717

Or London Road.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNRDAPEX/planet-x-london-road-sram-apex-final-countdown-edition-bike

Cheers, Steve

Can it really be the case that a £600 bike is equivalent to a £1000 or £1500 Cotic, genuine question. If it where an mtb I would know the answer.

Kaff has less clearance and might be slightly heavier/less refined, but at £999 with Sora for the Cotic I know what I would buy..and did buy…
Considering Apex is regarded as just below or equal to 105. Is the Cotic name worth £400 more?

Cheers, Steve

Mine is now for sale in the classifieds for anyone interested as I’m going ‘full Brompton’..

Skankin – you answered your own question – the Cotic name might not be worth £400 but the better refinement might be to some. Refinement always costs a bit extra.