Heavy steel frame, unfashionably long chainstays and high bottom bracket, yet it’s hard to find anybody with anything negative to say about the Flare Max.

OK, I’ll start, I don’t like the colours, but does anybody have anything more substantive to complain about. Presumably it’s hard to lift the front end and it wont go round corners, but none of the reviews seem to mention this.

Ride wise… ride one to find out. Demos are free, book one. Don’t rely on numbers.

Colours? Are you going by photos, or have you seen them in the metal? Personally (and professionally) very interested to hear views on the colours myself. Ta.

Alex off here has one, he certainly has trouble going around corners – posted something about having to do the transcambrian so he could stay in a straight line. 🙂

Colours is subjective. There were other Cotic colours I liked more (Fast Red, duck egg blue etc), and I’ve never much liked the classic orange, but the aqua is a lot nicer in the flesh than I expected. I chose the Flare rather than max because I wanted 2x, so I guess that would be a disadvantage for me at least.

The only way to find out is to demo one.

Are you actually saying a bike is shit without riding it? Is that a thing now?

Righto…

Without wanting to bring actual, like “facts” into the equation.

“Heavy steel frame”
30lb for a 29er full sus is not exactly a boat anchor for a bike that’s designed to be thrashed.

“unfashionably long chainstays”.
Give or take a mm the same as the currently very cool Geometron G13 in short mode.

“High bottom bracket”
Again as a quick comparison to the G13 – Flare BB drop is 34mm, G13 in “low” mode is 30mm. So it actually has a lower BB than the cool “long low slack” kid on the block.

As Kelvin says – go ride it.

I guess it just proves there is SO much more to how a bike rides that what is ‘on paper.’

As for the colours. I love orange but somewhow have yet to own an orange bike. When I bought my Solaris it was green or duck egg. I liked the green more. If it had been the previous colours of orange or blue it would have been a tougher choice. But it is such a personal thing. For me Cotic have the styling looking spot on.

The geometron is’t exactly current fashion though is it? it more the oddball of the group.

and I think there was an element of tongue in cheek regarding the OP

Heavy steel frame

It’s not heavy, it might be a few grammes heavier than a carbon or Alu alternative, but it’s not heavy. Certainly no more difference than picking a slightly heavier saddle than your mate in terms of overall effect on build.

unfashionably long chainstays

Again, they’re not looong, they’re not as short as some others, but that’s a different thing.

and high bottom bracket

It’s not that high, just not as low as some extreme alternatives but it’s hardly high.

As above, have a ride on one, you might like it you might not, most of the people who have one seem to like it and not everyone wants something at the extreme ends of measurements.

I have a normal Flare, (not Max) FWIW, I find the BB a bit too low for natural rocky stuff (mostly uphill) but it’s fine at TC’s or smoother stuff.

and I think there was an element of tongue in cheek regarding the OP

This ^ for sure.

Smalls have the bottle cage bosses under the downtube in the path of wheel spray which is a PITA.

The gloss aqua is nicer than the matt orange, having seen both side by side at a DH race earlier this year, and the ‘fast red’ on my BFe is lovely so if it’s the same as on other Cotics it’ll be ace.

I had a small Flare (not max) and it was a laugh, it was longer than my (then) small Soul 26 but that’s to be expected, it’s a generation newer and designed for slightly larger wheels, but you could still throw it about.

I’d love to see a short (80-120mm?) travel FS BFe with a pivot about the BB shell like the old Commie Absolut SX so you could run it SS easily…

edit- I found the BB slightly too low as well, same on my Rocket.

Heavy steel frame

Is it? Same weight as similar alloy bikes.

unfashionably long chainstays

I’m pretty certain the short chainstay fashion has already passed – you can now buy bikes with short, medium and long chainstays to suit your riding preference, and reviews tend to reflect that there are pros and cons to any length.

and high bottom bracket.

And that’s just plain wrong. It’s about 340mm on 29″ tyres and even lower on 27.5+

Yes, tongue very firmly in cheek. Sorry if that wasn’t obvious.

While I’m in a contrary mood though can I try to explain why the excellent looking demo option doesn’t really work for me. It’s partly because I’m up here in the North East of Scotland, but mostly because I’m an antisocial sod! Riding, for me (and yes, I know this makes me weird) is a solitary activity. Something I do to get away from everybody (even those I care about) to spend some quiet time on my own. Yes, I could go on a group ride or attend a demo day. I do from time to time and when I do I have a good time, but it doesn’t tell me whether a bike will work for me. I think I just get too affected by the comments of others or maybe it’s just all the noise that makes it hard to think. But to find if a bike will work for me I need to get out on my own and spend some time thinking.

Colours, of course, are a highly personal thing and I’ll admit that I’m going purely off photos. Mind you, I’m not sure that is totally invalid. I like a bike that looks good in a photo. Not that the Max looks bad. I just preferred the look of my green Solaris and like NM, I do have a thing for orange bikes.

Anyway, thanks for all the comments (even the WTF ones).

I’d love to see a short (80-120mm?) travel FS BFe with a pivot about the BB shell like the old Commie Absolut SX so you could run it SS easily…

There are quite a few of them about but they tend to be in the jump bike / slopestyle ranges.

I ran an alfine on my Absolute SX but never really got on with it. The trance I replaced it with was lighter, more modern geo and only needed a small tensioner.

And that’s just plain wrong. It’s about 340mm on 29″ tyres and even lower on 27.5+

OK, fair enough, although something like an Orange Stage Four has a quoted BB height of 327mm. But let’s not get too hung up on numbers. That was kind of my point. The numbers don’t look that good on paper, but everyone whose ridden one seems to love it. I’ve heard Cy talk about why he prefers a slightly higher BB and I tend to agree with him. I like to ride my bike up stuff too and pedal strikes are a pain on rocky Scottish tracks.

Thought of another negative: The bottle cage bolts are in the wrong place, mine has rubbed the bottle and cage against the shock and shock mount.. 🙂

The numbers don’t look that good on paper

I only ever really use the on paper numbers to get an idea of where a bike is pitched and if it’ll fit. They can never tell you exactly how a bike will ride, as I’m sure you know. I love a good dig into numbers and stats as mcuh as the next bike geek, but there really is no substitute for riding.

Not an MTB, but I have one bike (a Singular Osprey) that on paper is just wrong, but it is one of the best riding bikes I’ve ever swung a leg over and just works perfectly for me.

It’s partly because I’m up here in the North East of Scotland, but mostly because I’m an antisocial sod! Riding, for me (and yes, I know this makes me weird) is a solitary activity. Something I do to get away from everybody (even those I care about) to spend some quiet time on my own. Yes, I could go on a group ride or attend a demo day. I do from time to time and when I do I have a good time, but it doesn’t tell me whether a bike will work for me. I think I just get too affected by the comments of others or maybe it’s just all the noise that makes it hard to think. But to find if a bike will work for me I need to get out on my own and spend some time thinking.

Nothing to really stop you taking a bike out on a demo day on your own. You don’t have to ride with other people if you don’t want to. My first demo on a Rocket was a couple of hours on my own. Didn’t feel it was quite what I was after so did another one with a Flare, (but that was a group ride with my mates).

Cotic are unique in the way they run their Demos, could be worth finding out when/where Sam is next going to be near you and just asking if there’s an option to have an afternoon with a bike on your own while he’s off with others?

I certainly understand your feelings over solo riding however when I went on a demo ride there were only 4 of us plus Sam so not too large a group so might be worth still considering it. Possibly get in touch with the guys at Cotic to see if there is anything they could organise that would suit you better, doesn’t hurt to ask. Although it’s a long way if you happened to be planning a trip away go down to the peaks, plenty of riding plus they are now doing demo’s from their HQ so could be a chance to get your solo demo in.
You may have already seen it but well worth a watch if you’re interested in some of Cy’s thoughts on why they do things the way they do.
Guy interviews Cy

Bike Remedy in Stonehaven organised a couple of exclusive Cotic demo rides which were both held at Drumtochty, so might be worth a call to see if they’re planning any more. Rider numbers were small if that helps. I tried the SolarisMax, RocketMax and FlareMax. All were fun and I don’t recall any negative handling traits or issues popping front wheels.

The Cotic van passed within, oh, 3 miles of my house (enroute to Learnie Red Rocks although I was elsewhere on a BAM iirc think they’ve done one in Stonehaven too…

Glad someone posted link to guys video as it might help answer some of your questions I.e.cy got a carbon option looked at but it would’ve only been 200g lighter and the reason for ‘high’ b/b he likes to use the bike on the ups too… 😆

for a “heavy” bike it frikkin loves going up hills. /reeeaally/ loves going up hills. most fun I had demoing it was going up the hills, and the dudes and dudettes who were much more capable riders than I am preferred it on the descents to the Rocket too. Both excellent bikes. Get a demo sorted! Oh, and the aqua is actually lovely in the metal

It costs more than 50 quid.

1. it aint heavy – there are heavier alu and carbon bikes around. There are lighter ones too. You want a lightweight bike that is as rugged and durable as a Flare then you’ve got to have mega bucks at your disposal.

2. short chain stays are no longer in fashion – so like everything in fashion, what goes around comes around.

3. Geometry – its made for the real world so doesn’t have super low BB so you’re not smacking your pedals every other revolution, it doesn’t have a super long wheelbase, so you can manoeuvre it around tight corners and boulders and other features you get in the real world, and is made to be an all rounder so is capable of being ridden over a variety of terrains, and pretty competent in all areas – good climber, good descender etc.

It’s a great bike. I’m not one for test rides – I don’t think you can tell much from a single test ride….however you can tell something from a back to back test ride on the same day over the same terrain and that is what I did – Cotic Flare Max vs. SC Santa Cruz Hightower which was almost twice the price. On balance for me the Flare was the better bike…genuinely. It as marginally heavier, but no slower up the climbs (OK short climbs, but didn’t feel any heavier to pedal), no pedal strikes vs. almost constant pedal strikes with the Hightower, and was actually quicker down hill. It really boils down to what your preference is for what you want out of the bike and how you like to ride your bike, so well into the realms of subjectivity.

I’ve also done a back to back Flare Max vs. Rocket Max and again both excellent, and as you’d imagine the Rocket feels a bit looser and bigger, the Flare was tighter. I think I’m going to go for a Rocket Max on balance as I prefer the looser, bigger feel of the bike.

In terms of explicit negative feedback on the Flare, I can’t think of much at all, but then the bike was probably designed for the type of riding I do, so its characteristics are probably right in the sweet spot for me. Others with difference needs might not agree.

I once wrote an article for the mag about people who choose bikes based entirely on dimensions and geometry. I believe it contained the line ‘and if anyone thinks that I’ll arse-surf naked down the cheese aisle’ which possibly gives you an insight into my view of such things. It might have been @roverpig who gave me the idea originally 🙂

I like mine. It doesn’t feel particularly heavy. It’s brilliant as a chubby and almost as good as a 29. It fast, comfortable and a whole lot of fun to ride. If I hadn’t bought my Mojo3 I would have ridden it a whole load more. But with 1500km recorded all over the place including a couple of bike parks, I’m quite glad it’s strong enough to put up with my clumsiness.

I like the colour, didn’t notice the BB height and my only disappointment was I had to sort the bearings after about 800km as they didn’t appear to have much grease in them.

Oh and it’s even more fun with a 130mm fork.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/XxXwgS]Cotic FlareMax on 29s[/url] by Alex Leigh, on Flickr

kelvin – Member
Ride wise… ride one to find out. Demos are free, book one. Don’t rely on numbers.

Colours? Are you going by photos, or have you seen them in the metal? Personally (and professionally) very interested to hear views on the colours myself. Ta.

POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

I’m in the minority I think, but ‘Fast Red’ is not a colour I’d order anything in. Admittedly I’m generally not fond of Reds in general.

I actually really like the gloss gunmetal in person although I’d have never picked it from pictures. I met one in person with a CCDB IL in Eighteen Bikes and it was very much a hit. I quite like the Aqua. I’m a general fan of the ‘classic’ Cotic colours and just sold an old Orange Soul26, but still own a Soul275 in matte process blue, Solaris in matte Duckegg…

I had the same reservations as you OP, but it blew them apart. One of the best-climbing bikes I’ve ridden. Descends very well too. Did a blog on it…
http://unduro.co.uk/mtb/first-rides-cotic-flaremax-and-rocketmax/

I do think the turquoise colour has got a bit too common now, but the grey one is nice enough.

It might have been @roverpig who gave me the idea originally

Oi 😀

To be fair, I have done demo rides on most of the bikes that I’ve bought new plus a fair few that I haven’t. Often with long naval gazing write-ups on here. It’s just that my view of a bike after owning it for a month or two is usually very different to my view after a test ride.

A few people have commented on how well it climbs, which is certainly something that appeals to me. The flip side of a bike that climbs well is that it often feels a bit less secure on the way down. It’s a big part of the reason why I’ve been riding fat-tyred bikes so much recently. They can go up most things and are so stable that I’ll ride them down stuff I wont attempt on a “normal bike”. Not sure I’d ever find a skinny-tyred bike that inspired as much confidence, but a longish 29er is probably as close as it’s going to get.

ps. Thanks for the links to videos and reviews. I think I’d read/watched pretty much everything on the internet about this bike before posting, but much of it bears looking at again.

A few people have commented on how well it climbs, which is certainly something that appeals to me. The flip side of a bike that climbs well is that it often feels a bit less secure on the way down.

The long chainstays help make it a good climber AND a very stable descender. From your posts on here I suspect you might really click with it.

I’ve had one for a while now – mainly riding in Dark Peak area, but tried it around Tweed Valley, GT (on & off piste), Coed y Brenin etc. I really like the way the bike rides, it corners very well at speed, or slow tech. It climbs well for its weight and descends well on rough terrain with the X-fusion shock, and outstanding for its travel with the Cane Creek shock.

I’m running the fork (XFusion) at 130mm and the geometry feels normal..in a good way. No problem getting the front wheel in the air, in fact, I’ve surprised myself with the manuals I’ve been able to do on it (& I’m c**p at manuals!)

Downsides – well, I’m struggling a bit to get comfortable on it, as I feel the top tube is a bit too long for my height when I’m sat (I’m 6′ on a large and running a 35mm or 50mm stem – bike handles much better with 50mm). However, this might be more a reflection of my age and knackered back, neck and shoulders!….. or that my other bike has an old skool short top tube. Previous bike to the Cotic was also a short top tube and reach for its size. Other downside; the bottle cage is in an odd spot and I’ve heard others mention about it hitting the climb switch on Cane Creek shocks – I never use a bottle cage, so can’t confirm.

To me, the big downsize that you can’t get away from is the weight. I know one of the reviewers (GK?) said that there’s no weight penalty, but there is. My bike isn’t a super light build, but it’s not too budget either (1x SRAM Eagle GX/X0 mix with carbon cranks, X0 cassette, carbon bars, light stem, Reverb, XT brakes, 1660g wheelset, DHF 29 x 2.3’s front and rear) and it comes in at about 32.5lbs. I’ve tried reducing the weight by running a 1500g wheelset and tyres, but getting up to speed on rough descents was rubbish, and it descends better with its normal wheels and DHFs.

Again, maybe it’s my age, but I do feel the weight of the bike as the ride goes on – but I have to say that it does ride a little lighter than most other 32-33lb bikes I’ve had…..but it’d be better if it was 2lbs lighter! On the descents though, I think the weight and fame material helps quite a bit, especially with the Cane Creek shock. I’ve been very impressed by its descending capability. To elaborate, my other bike is an Enduro 29 with 160mm travel – that thing is an absolute ripper on descents, but with the Cane Creek shock, the FlareMAX looses very little ground; its more confidence inspiring and it’s a lot more involving on flowy trails.

I think a lot of the difference is in the geometry, the BB on the Enduro is 350mm and chainstays are a lot shorter; not a lot between them on head angle and wheelbase, but I think the longer stays on the Cotic just give it that bit more ‘sat inside the bike’ stability. I’ve previously owned another 29er with super short chainstays and found that that could feel a bit edgy on fast rough descents. As far as bottom bracket height goes, I think it’s the perfect balance between feeling stable and in the bike without pedal clipping on tech climbs. (Mrs B has a Camber Evo that she loves, but the BB is comically low (329 I think) – bike corners like it’s on rails around Glentress and the like, but she’s had some right clanger pedal strikes!)

Oh, and another positive is the ease of servicing – you can see it’s been designed so that bearings can be easily removed without special tools. The frame manual that Cotic have produced is exceptional too. The backup from the guys at Cotic is also first class – while I was up at Tweedlove, they spotted a couple of bolts on my frame that they’ve now improved and they mailed me some of the new ones out FOC.

Anyways, i really like the bike. The only thing I’d recommend to anyone thinking of getting one would be to pay the extra for the Cane Creek shock, as it transforms the descending capability of the bike. Oh, and of course, try and get a demo 😉

P.S. er…after bigging up the Cane Creek shock I thought I’d better come clean and mention that mine is currently in TF Tuned under warranty…..and yeah, it’s one of the new improved DB Air IL ….or whatever they call em now.
According to TF, they haven’t had many of the new ones back – but I don’t know if this is just because there’s not many out there yet. (Have a feeling that Cotic might also be offering Fox as an upgrade option now?)

RP: if the FlareMAX is 26/29ths as good as the original Rocket then it’ll be a cracking bike. I bought the Rocket after a demo from the predecessor to Bike Remedy in Stonehaven. Whilst they have some connection with Cotic I’m not sure what these days (happy to discuss off forum if you like) but they might be worth trying to see if they can get a demo bike up for you (you’d probably have to pay carriage if you don’t buy one).

Not sure if Joe is still there but you could try saying to Christian that you were talking to me and whether they could do it? Or speak to Cy/Paul? Tell them I said it was okay…. 😆

I found the Rocket was a decent climber (took it over the Firmounth for its test). I had some pedal strike until I put a bit more blow in the shock, I’d definitely not want a lower b/b than that.

(Have a feeling that Cotic might also be offering Fox as an upgrade option now?)

Aren’t they doing CC and RS at present due to Mojo situation?

Yeah, I guess what’s happened to Mojo will have put things on hold. FWIR, it was something on Cotics FB page, or in one of their email news updates – might be wrong, but maybe it was just Fox X2’s on Rocket & RocketMAX(?).

Not sure if Joe is still there but you could try saying to Christian that you were talking to me and whether they could do it? Or speak to Cy/Paul? Tell them I said it was okay….

OK, I’ll be sure to mention your name. That should ruin any chance of a discount 🙂 Seriously, thanks and thanks for the detailed and honest reviews above. I think you may be right chakaping. Not that I’m in any great hurry, but I’ll definitely keep the Flare Max on the list of bikes I should ride when I get a chance.

Weight is a funny one. I spent most of last year riding a 35lb steel fatbike. This year I upgraded it to something similar, but 4lb lighter. The lighter bike does do better on long non-technical drags, but there is less of an advantage when things get technical. In fact I’m still struggling to match some of my earlier times on more technical climbs. Maybe I’m just getting older and slower though 🙁

Maybe I’m just getting older and slower though

One of them is definitely happening… 😉

That should ruin any chance of a discount

Yup. Nothin surer

Flare Max and the Nicolai G13 side by side…

https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/nicolai-ion-g13-2017-medium,cotic-flare-max-2017-medium/

…not that similar!

Anything negative to say ?

Having only sat on one and looked at it for 5 minutes the one thing that put me off was the cable routing. Same with the rocket.
If they are a joy to ride i’d maybe look past it.

Had one since the spring. Not got a lot of negative stuff to say. I bought it as a bike I could ride in the big mountains and over steep rocky terrain. For this purpose it’s pretty much perfect. I’m running it with a 130mm fork so slightly slacker than the recommended 120mm, and it’s noticeable as I have to really muscle it round corners, especially on climbs. If you mainly ride trail centres with twisty trails then there’s potential for disappointment I’d say. Bottom bracket is defintely not too high as I still pedal-strike (running a lot of sag though). Other slight issue is lack of standover height, but at 5ft 10in on a large that was to be expected. Internal cable routing would be a nice addition, but it’s mostly an aesthetic consideration.

@RP: droplink frames currently come with a free upgrade of shock to CCDB Air IL….

@dazh, Don’t know if you considered one also, but do you have any regrets picking the FlareMax over a RocketMax?

I have a large Flare Max in 29er guise. It has a gold build with joystick carbon bars and 50mm joystick builder stem. With XT pedals it weighs in at 31.6 lbs. Of course I would prefer it to be lighter, but it does climb well and allows me to descend like a hooligan. It doesn’t like long road climbs, but that’s not its intended purpose, is it? I Have had to adapt my riding style and accept that I must sit and pedal steadily up climbs. I may install a 28t chainwheel as I feel I would benefit from a lower gear on technical climbs. I live and ride in the Lakes. I Like the simplicity of the design and the knowledge that I’ll never have to faff with internal cables. I always use a camelback so my bottle cage bosses are redundant.

My other bike is a carbon hardtail Cube 29er; in comparison the cotic appears to corner so much better, the front wheel seems to almost “fall” round tight turns ( I have 130mm travel forks).

I chose the gunmetal gloss colour as I think it complements the narrow diameter steel tubes.

If I had waited another week before ordering my bike in August I may have gone for the Sram eagle option, but I am more than happy with the way the XT drivetrain has performed.

It is a big bike with a long wheelbase and does not fit all car racks/carriers.

At 63 years young I needed to buy a bike that would suit me for years to come, the Flare Max fits the bill!

[url=https://flic.kr/p/FWSPZk]21231254_10155697416097140_39873752779775074_n[/url] by NeilH1954, on Flickr