Hi, firstly can I apologise, I am a newbie and I may ask things that some of you get exasperated by, having gone over it a million times before. Just bear with me.

I am 40 this year and have decided that my 7 yr old GT XCR 5 and 8 yr old GT Avalanche,(yes Halfords, I am sorry) are in need of replacing. My two thoughts are as follows
1. Buy a high spec full suss to replace both
2. Buy a nice hard tail to replace avalanche and keep the XCR and possibly upgrade the rear suss.

I think I have the answer to number 1 because of the costs associated with full suss. But for number 2 I need help.

What do frame only brands like Cotic offer us that the complete bike sellers such as Scott, Canyon, lapeirre, don’t. I really want a reason to go down the frame only route but don’t know why I should do this when you get such good spec these days on brands such as those stated above.

Thank you n advance for any feedback.

johnj2000 – Member
What do frame only brands like Cotic offer us that the complete bike sellers such as Scott, Canyon, lapeirre, don’t. I really want a reason to go down the frame only route but don’t know why I should do this when you get such good spec these days on brands such as those stated above.

The “frame only” route offers a certain niche-ness. You shouldn’t underestimate how much this means to some folk. It also allows for a very customised build. You are right in saying that the complete bikes available from the larger suppliers offer a very good spec. However, most experienced bikers have developed preferences and they would only end up stripping off some components to replace them with their own favourites. This makes the all-in-one deal a lot less attractive.

In short – unless you are happy to spec, acquire (and perhaps build) your own bike, stick to a complete package.

With a frame only you can pick every single part individually to suit you and your riding, also seen many a new bike that after 12months has had another fair few hundred quid spent Upgrading parts, and then not be quite the bargain it was..
Then again..if your not very savvy about bikes then a spesh/trek/giant type brand make it hard to go far wrong..

Only you can decide…

Brilliant, thanks guys. I would love to say I have very specific requirements when it comes to components but I would be lying, I don’t have a clue!

One final question, I have this geek inside me telling me that the Cotic etc frames are things of engineering beauty. Am I kidding myself?

Yes to be brutally honest, they’re very nice but so are the big name frames
But you can’t get a 853 spesh/trek/giant…..so they’re more..MORE…it’s a well known fact, owning a cotic will embiggen your life and make you more attractive to the laydees..
Fact…

Another advantage of frame only is that when you fancy a change you can just swap most of your parts onto a new frame. It’s less attractive when all of your components need updating at once. In your position I’d buy a complete bike and maybe swap the frame for something else later.

At 40 I think I need all the help I can get to attract the ladies lol. Not sure my wife will let me have one if she reads that though!

You people are talking sense, glad I asked what might have appeared a daft question.

I have just realised that now you guys have answered my frame only quandary it has left me back in the place thought I had left. Do I go for a full suss as a one bike fits all solution or a 29er hardtail and just keep the XCR for the odd occasion I think I really need the full suss?

I went down both routes. I bought a F/S complete and then bought new wheels, brakes, seat post, saddle etc which rather negated the good deal I got on the bike. I then bought a 456 frame which I convinced myself would cost hardly anything because I would have loads of bits left over from the other bike. This didn’t work either- I just bought loads of new bits for this bike.
I have now seen sense and am going back to one bike, a 140mm reasonably light F/S [yet to be chosen]. I ride 2-3 times a week so although I always have a bike to ride , I wear them out equally.
Stick to one complete bike until you know what your preferences are going to be.

I’d rather ride your old Avalanche (assuming it fits) than any current steel hardtail frame.

My full-sus is easily my least ridden bike, but without knowing where and how you ride, it’s difficult to provide any advice.

which one is your most polished?

LOL – at the moment, it’s a case of taking one the garage and knocking all the dried mud off in order to ride. I guess I should have one mega-cleaning session and do the lot at once.

I hear your helmet is well polished though?

I’m not allowed to talk about my helmet on here 😥

@johnj – welcome to mountain biking, these sorts of dilemmas will be with you for a lifetime hopefully.

What you don’t say is budget, if you have £1k or more to spend I’d recom mend full-suss, an all round bike like a LaPierre Zesty, Giant Trance, etc etc. Less than that you’re better off with a decent spec hardtail. In your position a frame build up doesn’t make sense as you don’t know what components you want and in any case a frame build costs a lot more than off the shelf (volume purchasing of components etc). The beauty of the all round bikes is you can try a variety of rides, xc, trail centre, technical and the bike can do them all ok and you can see what you like best. I would definitely say one bike for the time being.

So budget and what sort of riding do you want to do ?

FYI I bought my first mtb at 45. I am just about to build up a hardtail cotic with cost over £2k, plenty of off the shelf full suss bikes for that. Hardtail isn’t necessarily cheaper depends on those components 🙂

Wow! I go away for a few hours and come back to loads more advice, cheers you lot.

Budget will be a smidge over 2k, I don’t think I need a full suss for where I ride it’s just a confidence thing. I have always rode a full suss so rely on the rear sus to fix my rubbish skill level when the back wheel whacks a tree root or rock.

I ride mainly onnthebsouthbdowns and the newly made single track at QE Park. I love the idea of being able to cover the rides on a hardtail but feel nervous about it. I think the suspension on my XCR is decent enough but seems to give me issues when climbing as many hardtails pass me by. I end up catching them on the downs though!

Arrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh this is so hard. One chance to buy right!

Any LBSs near you that will do demo rides, or anywhere to hire bikes?

Might be a little extra outlay, but might give you a feel for what you want/like to ride.

slainte ❓ rob

Arrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh this is so hard. One chance to buy right!

Go ride a load of different bikes at a demo days. See what you enjoy riding – you don’t have to know about the microscience of component choice to know where you get on with a bike or not. If the bike you get on with is an off the peg, buy one in the correct size. If it’s a frame-only job, find a bike shop you trust that stocks it, tell them what you want the bike to do/ride like, trust them to spec it for you and build it up. Or ask a more experienced mate.

Don’t fret over the ‘princess and the pea’ stuff on here.Speccing the ‘wrong’ brakes or saddle isn’t a big deal.

I’ve never bought an off the peg bike, mainly because of the big outlay, but also because I know I’d soon be swapping bits off it anyway.

From what you’ve put I’d say a nice steel 29er HT. Steel because it will take the edge off the bumps. (But I am biased somewhat 🙂 ).
Cotic Solaris, Niner MCR (or SIR.9 if your likely to try singlespeed).

It will ride so much better than your current two. Someone like CharlietheBikemonger or Sideways Cycles would put you one together with a lovely spec for that much money.

What do frame only brands like Cotic offer us that the complete bike sellers such as Scott, Canyon, lapeirre, don’t. I really want a reason to go down the frame only route but don’t know why I should do this when you get such good spec these days on brands such as those stated above.

Think of it as “pimp my ride” you get to build your own awesome machine in any colour combination you wish. To the spec you want.

Sometimes it is cheaper to buy a complete package but not always. Have a look at On-One as a frame only type build, they put many manufacturers to shame price wise.

You could also buy a complete build and sell the junk off it you don’t want. If your after a short travel full susser Giant Anthem’s get my vote.

Another option, which has served me well over the last few years is to buy most things nearly new from the classifieds. That way you can find out what you like at a much lower financial risk. If the stuff you buy doesn’t suit you you can generally sell it on and only loose the cost of postage. I’ve been through a good half dozen frames in the last couple of years before ending up with what I’ve got now.

A lot of local bike shops make most of their money from their workshop, so don’t be embarrassed to go in with 80% of the components in a box and ask them to build it for you. Particularly if you buy one or two bits from them at the same time.

The only problem with the above is that it can become a bit addictive.

John, the South Downs/QECP are absolutely fine on a hardtail, a full sus is superfluous. If you are more comfortable on the fs, you’ll be more relaxed and haave more fun. Unless you’re training for racing or spme big event, fun is why you ride I assume?
Doesn’t help your decision, does it?
I’d buy a nice fs bike for the 2k. Then sell the two GTs giving you some monies to start building a rigid 29er. Saving a few quid from the budget to buy ScottFitz and the KVMTB guys a beer for their work at QE of course!

As above johnj2000, I frequent the South Downs (in the summer!) and always on a hardtail (a Soul, as it happens) which is perfect. Full suspension would be over-biked in my opinion. Those hills go on and on.

I bought a Soul frame only and did a build** because I specifically wanted to break the dependency on the LBSs, and I wanted to spec the parts myself, actually the brakes were re-used from an earlier bike and the forks were 2nd hand from Classifieds too but all is good-as-new.

I’m glad I did, riding a bike I built rounds out the MTB experience for me, I like knowing how everything fits together and that I can service and fix an awful lot without repeating the “take to LBS-fetch-try-it’s wrong-take it back-start again” loop over and over (life’s too short to do that any more).The caveats are I probably didn’t ‘save’ any money and it took a chunk of time (that I was happy to invest as part of the hobby), but repeats would be quicker and cheaper.

** IMO ‘build’ is actually a bit of a grandiose term, ‘assembled’ is more accurate.

John regarding ‘hardtail vs fs’ – my Soul is built light and fast, optimised for where I spend 95% of my ride time which is Surrey Hills and North Downs, ie no rocks, lots of climbs, I call it “XC+”. I have an old Blur Classic that I use for Wales/ooop North/anywhere rocky/Alps etc.

It’s brilliant – best of both worlds, plus I have a backup bike should one have downtime or I need one to lend to a buddy. For you down South, if you have space, that’s the way to do it. If I was having only one it would be the Soul because I love it for where (and how) I ride the most.

@john – I’d say your two choices are

Spend 2k on a modest travel full suss bike (e.g. Zesty 314, Trance, Anthem, you can even get a Santa Cruz Superlight for that money ..)
Spend 1k on a hard tail off the shelf, or a little bit more building up something like a Soul, for this you’ll need some advice and probably some second hand components (all available here).

If you don’t mind spending the full budget the full suss will be of a decent spec and much kinder on your back, over time it will cost a little more in maintainence (rear shock service /bearings but possibly not for 2 or 3 years). As you do more riding don’t be surprised if you want to take some trips further afield, the full use will give you that flexibility whilst still pedalling well uphill and on longer natural rides. So my recommendation would be the fuss suss.

You’d build an absolutely lovely Soul for 2K. And a light, nicely put together Soul is a joy to ride and own. I find myself standing staring at mine quite regularly.

Soul frame, XT groupset from Merlin or one of the German sites, Revelations from Merlin, Hope hoops crest wheelset, and your choice of bars/stem/etc – can’t go wrong.

For the first time in my life on Friday I found myself thinking that I’d probably have had a better day if I had been on a FS rather than my Soul.

However, it was my first decent ride in about 8 weeks after having busted my shoulder and it was a bit of a long hard day (about 7 hours up and down around the Long Mynd) and I am 58.

But thinking about it, I would have probably felt as beat up on a FS anyway.

It was a brilliant day out though.

@OP – lots of good opinions here. There’s no bad decision here really, go with what you fancy and justify it afterwards. I did.

Brilliant! Thanks to all of you.

I am 70% sold on the HTail option but the LBS has a demo day the week before my 40th so I think the decision will be made then.

@mattbee – what those guys have done to the QE trail should be applauded, it shouldn’t take volunteers initiative to do stuff like this but it’s just the way of the world and I am glad those guys chose to do it.