my latest addition is a bit of a bellend..

for the first three months he had colic and screamed incessantly.. we tried all the usual methods of controlling the symptoms to no avail..

so at three months.. the colic appears to ease up and we finally get to see his smile.. in fact, when awake the little fella rarely stops giggling and smiling, until he’s not getting his own way..

If we don’t hold him the way he wants, or if he’s a bit tired, or bored then he screams.. ear-splittingly loud screams, and god forbid that we put him down so that we can do the dishes etc..

Obviously this can’t go on so we started to apply the tough love, as we had to with our eldest at a similar age, but the pitch, volume and duration of screaming have all increased tenfold..

now at four months, I fear for the health of my hearing..

My eldest son, is gentle and kind, and at nearly three years old, is a quiet, bookish, sensitive soul and he’s NOT a fan of the noise.. so with him at playgroup this morning I have just spent the last hour trying to let the shrieking maniac cry himself out..
he’s fed clean and comfortable etc, and due a nap but I’ve been sat here preparing my story for when social services arrive which they are bound to do at any moment, if not the police.. the noise is horrific

I finally caved after about 67 minutes and gave him a cuddle, this caused him to fall asleep in less than five minutes..

what’s next..?
earplugs..?
gin..?
dingo..?

Dummy?

my pervy little brov was a PITA until mum gave him one….

As always every kid is different, and all kids react differently and have different things that push their buttons.

Personally I think 67 minutes is too long.

We tried a half way house approach. We would allow Jnr FD to cry for 20 mins, then if he didnt stop go back to him, calm him down, and then leave again. This could take 3-4 attempts but generally on the last the crying would stop after 10 mins or so and he would be asleep.

I finally caved after about 67 minutes and gave him a cuddle

Whoah!

Controlled crying is NOT simply leaving them to it. This is really bad for your kid. Imagine if you were scared, lonely and afraid of this crazy new world that’s forcing itself into your brain, and you started to panic.. and you knew your only source of comfort and love, the thing you depend on for your whole existence was just downstairs but it ignored you.

What you’re meant to do is wean them off the constant cuddling etc. So stand by the bed (if you’re trying to get him to nap) give a few minutes cuddle and telling him it’s bedtime, then put him down. Come back a few minutes later, pick him up and do it again. Or rub his back or something when he’s in bed. But keep coming back – otherwise bed turns into an emotional torture chamber he’ll be terrified of.

Back rubbing whilst in bed works for our kid who sounds similar, but she is 11mo now.

Some kids just need constant reassurance. Consider some kind of sling where you can wear them – but on your back, cos you can’t get anything done with them on your front!

Don’t think there’s much you can do Yunki, some babies are like that.

Patience and love, nothing else works in my experience.

I’m not a huge fan of controlled crying, I know that many are but babies need attention and love, thats why they cry.

All the best, my eldest was pretty mental so I know how you’re feeling.

IMO controlled crying is cruel. Kids need love and security.

Some friends did the ‘controlled crying’ with their babies. Now as 3-5 years old the kids are appear emotionally distant and lack the ability to express themselves. Their parents feel they don’t have a close bond with their kids. Maybe, just maybe the kids are thinking screw you, you left me to cry night after night.

When we did controlled crying with micromtbfixlette we would return to her after 5 mins, then 10, then 20, etc. they have to know that they have not been abandoned. This took about a week and the mrs. hated me for it is she could not stand leaving her to cry but it settled in and she s pretty easy after that. There is probably all sorts of useful advice over on Mumsnet.

so with him at playgroup this morning I have just spent the last hour trying to let the shrieking maniac cry himself out

Personally I don’t think this is the way to do it. we did it with William when he got to 18 months, as he wouldn’t go down when he woke up in the night. we went in every 2 minutes to tell him it was OK and we were still there, slowly built up the time he was left for. took about 3 hours the first night, 1 the second, sorted on the third

leaving a baby to cry for an hour without reassuring him is no way controlled crying, all he wants is a bit of reassurance IMO

things that work for us:
teach him to suck his thumb?
baby bouncer?
rocking/ gliding chair?
get him to go to sleep in the pitch black?
be relaxed and gentle with him – if either of us are tired/ stressed/ impatient it seems to make him worse so the other takes over.

Whoah!

what you’re describing there is a gradual retreat technique Mol.. NOT controlled crying..

I think that maybe you’re onto something though and it may well be worth us backpedalling a little and adopting a slightly more softly softly approach for a bit..

leaving a baby to cry for an hour without reassuring him is no way controlled crying

I don’t think at any point I said I had abandoned him..! you have an over active imagination there 😆

“teach him to suck his thumb?”

Apparently that is worse for their teath than using a dummy… and harder to stop… unless you cut their thumb off 😈

“what you’re describing there is a gradual retreat technique Mol.. NOT controlled crying..”

No thats what most people call controlled crying. There is nothing controlled about leaving your child to cry for over 1 hour as stated above …. sorry

😆

again.. you’re filling in the gaps to make the story fit your fantasy..

=http://www.supernanny.co.uk/Advice/-/Health-and-Development/-/0-to-4-years/Sleep-problems-~-when-controlled-crying-doesn’t-work.aspx]controlled crying

IMO Always pick up baby and sort out the reason for the crying (when crying properly) and cuddle. Pop them back down when they stop crying (repeat as many times as necessary*). Also withdraw contact gradually, from cuddle to lying with hand on tummy, to finger, to sitting next to them, to leaving the room.

*Occasionally give up (when n > 100) and let them sleep on you.

It will get better but if you have to stay with them all night then that’s what you’ll have to do.
We t in to my 3yo the other night to ask her if she needed a wee. She said “go away now daddy, I want to go to sleep now”. That brought ba k so many memories of lost nights that I could have cried myself!

ok..

so then parenting gurus..

during the day.. what do we actually do about the screaming..?
If he screams for attention we pick him up..?

and hold him all day..?
with a sling or whatever..?

You might just have a kid who can’t be put down. Some kids are like that. Sorry. No idea why, but they just seem to need that reassurance more than other kids.

Rose was like it until about 8 months or so. Even daytime naps she wouldn’t take except if moving in the pushchair, or on the sling on someone. I took her for 5am runs in her pram, big long walks in the sling etc. I remember the first time she went down for a nap in the cot really clearly, it was just after 8 months old, I didn’t really know what to do with myself!

It was a pain in some ways, but if you use a sling, it makes life a million times easier. We used a wrap sling (Moby Wrap) when she was little, and got something more structured (a ‘connecta integra’) once she got too wriggly at about 6 months I think. Once you get used to the sling, you can do everything with the kid in it. I’ve washed up with her in it, gone to the loo, cooked dinner etc. It is also very snuggly, lots of time being really close, building up a bond with your kid, which is not to be sniffed at (although I’d have preferred if less of it was at 5am in the morning!).

The good news is, that it means nothing about how they’ll be later on in life – from when Rose learnt to crawl, she’s always been really independent, if anything more so than other kids her age. It kind of feels like she was just waiting to be able to go places on her own, and until then, she was continually annoyed by the fact that she was unable to take herself to look at the shiny things.

Joe

I could sort this out easily yuki but in the interest of levelling out karma between us won’t intervene here.
as you were.. 😉

and hold him all day..?
with a sling or whatever..?

http://www.thebabasling.com/products/baby-slings.html?gclid=CJOm7qOwjLECFUYntAodjVQFFA

he’s not doing itdeliberately to piss you off y’know!

love you too GW….x 😀

you want me to carry this around in a sling all day..!!!?
I think health and safety would have something to say about that.. I can hear the local chiropractors rubbing their hands in glee already..

“teach him to suck his thumb?”

Apparently that is worse for their teath than using a dummy.

he doesn’t have any teeth 😀

Oh yeah, and whatever you do now, ignore the people who say “you’re building a rod for your own backs” if you ‘give in to the baby’ all the time (or similar things people say if you do controlled crying) – there are arguments either way about what effect it’ll have in the long term*, but probably it makes next to no difference long term and you might as well just ride it out whichever way is easiest for you to get through. We did the cuddling with the sling thing, and now Rose rarely wakes up before 7am, and goes to bed at a sensible time usually (between 7 and 8), and is very good about daytime naps.

Joe

* some people say that babies who are held too much get too clingy, whereas others say that babies who do controlled crying are emotionally troubled and don’t sleep well later on – my guess is that both are wrong, as I know various people who’ve done both methods and there seems no logic about who ends up with a good sleeping toddler.

I think the OPs first line is the most concerning.

I want to post a youtube clip with a troubled child sleeping suggestion but it won’t let me. Done exactly what the forum help tells me to do 😥

I’m crying now so you’ve got two on your hands

Yunki – if you are going to go down the controlled cryin route that you describe – you need to stick to your guns. No caving in after 67 minutes. I did that with my eldest and he has no problems sharing his emotions or expressing himself – he is a bit mental though.

Good luck.

It’s a fine line between abandoning the child when they need you and teaching them that they can get attention or you to do what they want by going bonkers.

Generally – make sure they are ok (ie: nappy, wind, feed, thirst, not ill etc). I think babies are fairly tough and after the first one, you learn as a parent that they are not super fragile/needy. The only way we could get ours to sleep right through was to go through 3 nights of leaving them going bonkers and after that they learnt we wouldn’t come running and have been generally ok ever since. A dummy can help, but then you’ll have to go through dummy withdrawal at some point later.

at 3 months i was regularly perfecting my dad dancing round the living room to Radiohead until baby scaled was asleep then i’d put her on my chest and collapse on the sofa and let her sleep there for the night!

I don’t think at any point I said I had abandoned him..!

He might not realise that though….

I have a book called ‘Inside your child’s brain’ which sounds like it’s going to be another crappy child manual but it’s actually a propery neurology book written by academics (who have their own kids too) – quite sciency (which I like) but flippin interesting, and all derived from published studies. It talks about kids being high or low responders, which means how sensitive they are to things being good or bad. Sounds as if yours is a high responder, like our second. They say that high responders are very sensitive to the quality and closeness of the bond between them and their parents, and this can affect the emotional and psychological problems they might suffer in later life.

Basically if they get loads of support and reassurance, they tend to grow up able to deal with their emotions. If they don’t, it can affect their ability to deal with life which as you can imagine can lead to all sorts of negative emotions.

I would recommend any parent to read it.

Gin.

I think the OPs first line is the most concerning.

I think the OPs first line is the most amusing, it’s certainly a lot less insulting than some of the things* I’ve called my son (2.5) and daughter (11 months over the years!

* Obviously under my breath, rather than out loud. Esp. if they’re in earshot.

The child is 3 months old and just wants comforting.
Get a sling and carrying them around while you need to do stuff (Not on the turbo in the garage though)

Controlled crying is for much further down the line. They don’t learn habits at 3 months old

And give it a dummy if it wants it.

As with all parenting advice and tips, all IMO and no two young ‘uns are the same.

He’s only 4 months old, MTFU and pick the poor sod up. If you have to carry him around for the next few months.

The only way we could get ours to sleep right through was to go through 3 nights of leaving them going bonkers and after that they learnt we wouldn’t come running and have been generally ok ever since

Therein lies the dividing line. There is no way I would do that to my children. ‘The Molly Method’ whatever you want to call it is fine, but just leaving them… couldn’t do it.

For the record

No. 1 seemed a nightmare, but on reflection was just a normal baby – 1st is always tough.

No. 2 an absolute dream as a baby, has grown into a temper nightmare

No 3 nightmare from birth, still not sleeping as long as I’d like (i.e. past 05:30) @ 2 years.

All treated the same as far as I can tell, there are no rules, only opinions and instinct if you ask me.

It’s the voices in their heads that make them mental at that age 🙄

My youngest was 5 weeks early, so spent the first couple of weeks in intensive care, then spent more than his first year suffering with both colic and reflux. You have my sympathies – it is a very difficult thing to go through as a parent. Yes, they want comforting, but at the same time don’t want to be held.

He seems to be over this now, and is a lovely 20 month old toddler. Doesn’t stop smiling and laughing. We are reaping the rewards now.

I agree with the dummy comment – if a kid wants a dummy let him have one. Our first child had one – got to 2 and a half and we told hi that Father Christmas needed to take it to recycle for toys – he just handed it straight over and never wanted it again. Youngest never wanted one.

I feel your pain.

No.1 didn’t sleep at all for 18months but will now sleep for his country.

No.2 better but still insists on waking the house at 5:30am, (little cow)

No.3 n/a as I’ve been taken off the grid

Nothing works, they’ll sleep when they want to and there’s **** all you can do about it.

‘The Molly Method’ whatever you want to call it is fine, but just leaving them… couldn’t do it.

Yeah I should stress that we are doing this at 10-11mo not 3-4mo. At that age we just dealt with it. She was sleeping a lot though which was the only thing that saved the situation. In as much as it was saved at all.. I mean the kid’s alive but Mrs Grips barely is after a year of crap sleep.

I don’t think that clearing off and leaving them for 67 mins is controlled crying – sounds more like abandonment.

What worked for us – let her cry for 2 mins, pick up and cuddle, then 5 mins, then 10 mins, then repeat every 10-15 mins.
(pretty much what Supernanny suggests)

It works, but you have to be strict – one good tip is don’t make eye contact – babies will be looking for a reaction from you, and if they smile/laugh you’ll find it difficult not to smile back.

The whole idea behind it is for you to take and maintain control of the situation, while still offering comfort and security to the child.

However – if he is a constant moaner/screamer there might be more to it – we had big issues with our first, turned out all the misery was due to milk intolerance, the week we switched to Infasoy it all stopped. (don’t **** about with their diet without speaking to a doctor first though)

If he screams for attention we pick him up..?

Yes to all three questions.
Do other primates put their babies down and leave them? The cry to be picked up is quite natural and normal, and they do grow out of it (eventually).

It works, but you have to be strict – one good tip is don’t make eye contact

Not sure about that. Surely it’s not much reassurance if you don’t acknowledge them? Eye contact in this house.

Lot of experts in here eh?