Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 141 total)
  • Contador Back Froome as Clean
  • mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Alberto Contador saw his Tour de France chances suffer another crushing blow when he ceded 1min 40sec to Froome on Sunday’s 15th stage to fall 4min 25sec behind the British rider in the overall standings.
    Froome’s stunning performances have been greeted with scepticism by some members of the public and media as memories of the Lance Armstrong scandal remain fresh in the minds of everyone.
    However, Contador for one believes that it is wrong to question the man who seems a certainty to win the 100th edition of the sport’s greatest race.
    “There is no reason to doubt about Froome,” insisted the Spaniard at his rest-day press conference in Avignon in southern France.
    “He is a professional rider who has been performing at a really high level all year, and I think that his results are the fruits of the work he puts in and nothing else.

    “I fully believe that he is clean. That is why the doping controls are there, isn’t it?”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/10180352/Tour-de-France-2013-Chris-Froome-doping-allegations-rubbished-by-Alberto-Contador-his-biggest-rival.html

    He probably knows a bit about dopers

    aracer
    Free Member

    I’m sure Froome is thrilled to have his backing.

    metalheart
    Free Member

    What does Lance think?

    notmyrealname
    Free Member

    What does Lance think?

    Who gives a **** what he thinks?

    Houns
    Full Member

    Just sums up the whole ‘sport’ that is road racing for me. That addled with drugs that people have to make statements like this

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    LOL it is in context, I think he already professed that Froome was fine.

    captain-slow
    Free Member

    The texan who ruined others careers should be aggressively ignored. I am personally disappointed that some pros still follow him on twitter.

    B.A.Nana
    Free Member

    notmyrealname – Member
    What does Lance think?
    Who gives a **** what he thinks?

    clubber
    Free Member

    That’s the real legacy of the culture of cheating. We now don’t know what clean cycling should look like so anyone who performs well is doubted.

    Of course, some/most of the current generation of (hopefully) clean riders were complicit at times of not speaking out when they knew doping was going on but it’s easy to criticise when you’re not actually involved in the sport and just wanted to race your bike.

    Hopefully Froome, Wiggins and most of the top current riders are clean. Certainly there are indicators that they could be but who can 100% say there’s no cheating, even at a low level. For example, I’m convinced that Contador cheated in the past and I’d be surprised if he’s riding completely clean now given that people in the know say that there are still ways to dope and avoid positives but just with much lower levels of performance boost. Hence IMO why Contador, Schleck and others are now consistently performing at a lower level than they did in the past.

    I guess, I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt because otherwise, road racing will be dead to me – winning through talent and hard work makes racing interesting for me. Winning through cheating completely turns me off.

    ransos
    Free Member

    That’s the real legacy of the culture of cheating. We now don’t know what clean cycling should look like so anyone who performs well is doubted.

    Yet Usain Bolt isn’t having to answer these questions…why does he get a free pass from journalists?

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Yet Usain Bolt isn’t having to answer these questions…why does he get a free pass from journalists?

    I was saying the same thing over dinner last night. There’s a massive doping culture in athletics, and much of it is knocking on some doors that are very close to Bolt. There’s masses of doping in Jamaican sprinting, and yet there’s no one out there saying, “Well, if Bolt is winning, he must be doping” in the same way they do when any cyclist does well.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    Pretty sure Contador backed himself as clean too. Doubt Froome is interested in his support.

    Trimix
    Free Member

    +1 Clubber.

    Looking at it very objectivly / scientifically, you would have to question any large increase in performance.

    I will not be surprised at some point to hear Usain cheated, dispite his long legs.

    Its also very hard to look at cycling and not suspect the top performers are cheating. They need to do a lot more to remove the tainted image before the natural reaction is to think of cheating.

    Ro5ey
    Free Member

    8 out 10 of the world’s fastest 100m sprinters have doped 😯

    So yes, Bolt defo should be asked tough questions.

    But lets hope he’s the exception to the rule

    bratty
    Full Member

    German TV news had a headline ‘doubts over Bolt grow’ this morning. The doubt everyone over here since Ulrich got done, and Lance was the nail in the coffin. They seem to have a double standard over the Bundesleague though. They ignore the indications that there are/were allsorts going on there, but refuse to show the TDF.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    there’s no one out there saying, “Well, if Bolt is winning, he must be doping”

    As I understand it, Bolt is extremely well adapted to sprinting, physically. So you can look at him and expect fantastic performances. He may of course still be doping, but he’s obviously going to be very good clean or otherwise.

    I suspect the same is true of Froome. Tall and incredibly skinny.

    samuri
    Free Member

    All sports use performance enhancing drugs, it’s just some sports fall under greater scrutiny than others and so appear to the general public to be worse than others.

    Tennis and football are great examples. Don’t tell me that football clubs don’t endorse the use of performance enhancing drugs when the rewards are so astronomically high and yet you see nothing like the same level of testing taking place. Even people in the football industry both admit that not enough testing takes place and that doping is rife. I’ve seen statements from high profile football industry people to say that clubs dope players without players even knowing about it.

    It frustrates me the intensity that cycling comes under and the perception of ‘cheats’ that this generates which no doubt damages the overall view of the sport when other mainstream sports are just as bad if not worse.

    EarlofBarnet
    Free Member

    There has been a lot of chatter on twitter over the last few days over ‘GAS6’. I don’t entirely understand what it is/does but think its to do with genes.

    Would be great to believe this years TDF was clean. It’s interesting to note Andy Schlek’s and Cadel Evans performance this year compared with a few years ago. Contador too.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Its also very hard to look at cycling and not suspect the top performers are cheating. They need to do a lot more to remove the tainted image before the natural reaction is to think of cheating.

    Like what? There’s not much the riders can do, other than not cheat!

    I’m in two minds of the whole UCI truth and reconciliation debacle as well. On the one hand there probably needs to be change at the top (of which the T&R would give the evidence to get rid), but on the other hand if the current field are clean then what benifit would it give? It’s too late, we already know all about EPO, HGH, cortisone, blood transfusions, testosterone, etc. If the sport is now as clean as any other then the doping that is happening will be already a step ahead of what happend in the 90/00’s so all T&R would do is air some already very dirty laundry in public again.

    mtbfix
    Full Member

    The Today Programme yterday had an apologist from some British athletics organisation on who blamed supplement manufacturers for the recent batch of sprinters failing tests. Appalling stuff.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    some/most of the current generation of (hopefully) clean riders were complicit at times of not speaking out when they knew doping was going on

    Source

    What saggan Cav, and froome did not speak out them but they all know – evidence?
    By the time they were there the cheats did it in secret not in the team]HEL even Wiggos team was thrown out and he was unaware of it all

    Its also very hard to look at cycling and not suspect the top performers are cheating. They need to do a lot more to remove the tainted image before the natural reaction is to think of cheating.

    What is this more you expect them to do
    Set up clean teams.
    Sack anyone with links to past doping
    Offer to give Wadda all their data
    Biological passports
    Drug tests
    Really what more do you want?

    It frustrates me the intensity that cycling comes under and the perception of ‘cheats’ that this generates which no doubt damages the overall view of the sport when other mainstream sports are just as bad if not worse.

    YEs I said this yesterday cycling is , finally, tackling the issue and doing what it can yet sports which turn a blind eye look clean and get no grief – tennis and football being some obvious ones

    Cadel Evans performance this year compared with a few years ago.

    Cuddles is clean but he is also 36

    dazh
    Full Member

    Perhaps I’m being a bit dim, but I”ve never really understood what the difference is between ‘performance enhancing drugs’ and ‘supplements’. One is a concoction of man-made chemicals designed to enhance performance and recovery, the other is, err, a concoction of man-made chemicals designed to enhance performance and recovery.

    Can anyone explain to me why packaging a cocktail of industrial chemicals and processed nutrients into a sachet and calling it a ‘gel’ is different to any of the other performance enhancing drugs which are deemed illegal?

    warton
    Free Member

    As I understand it, Bolt is extremely well adapted to sprinting, physically.

    Surely all top level sprinters are physically well adapted to sprinting, otherwise they wouldn’t be sprinters?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Can anyone explain to me why packaging a cocktail of industrial chemicals and processed nutrients into a sachet and calling it a ‘gel’ is different to any of the other performance enhancing drugs which are deemed illegal?

    One allows you to perform to your best level
    The other allows you to improve/increase your best level

    Drinking water improves my performance on a stage race but not above “natural”

    Taking some amphetamine would also improve my performance but above “natural”

    The line may indeed be blurred but other[ well qualified] people make this decision as to what is and what is not ok

    whatnobeer
    Free Member

    Cadel Evans performance this year compared with a few years ago.

    Cuddles is clean but he is also 36

    Yup, and rode a pretty impressive Giro, not surprising that he’s not on form.

    notmyrealname
    Free Member

    As I understand it, Bolt is extremely well adapted to sprinting, physically.

    Is this like when Armstrong was regularly claimed to be some kind of medical miracle with huge lung capacity etc therefore was extremely well adapted for cycling?

    Tennis and football are great examples. Don’t tell me that football clubs don’t endorse the use of performance enhancing drugs when the rewards are so astronomically high and yet you see nothing like the same level of testing taking place.

    Football seems to completely overlook doping in general. During the Operation Puerto trial Fuentes stated many times that he’d worked with footballers but was blocked from naming them. In Tyler Hamilton’s book he mentions that the doping doctors he dealt with also said they’d worked with footballers.
    There’s a guy in Twitter, Giggs-Boson, who regularly tweets about doping in all sports but mainly football. There’s some pretty interesting stuff on there.

    brakes
    Free Member

    I’m beginning to believe in Contador a bit. He is a fantastic cyclist and he’s cheated in the past, but then so did many others. His results appear to show that he is clean, and he is under such scrutiny that surely it would be too risky to dope, no matter how small?
    He seems a likeable chap – maybe I just want to believe in him?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    He raced when he knew he would get banned after the event that was the bit I will never forgive him for he should have withdrawn from races
    His “defence” was never going to work outside Spain.
    I loved his style pre ban but iirc he still maintains the steak excuse and does not admit to doping – in reality he most likely took a blood bag as well as doped.

    If he confesses then i may start to alter my opinion

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Perhaps I’m being a bit dim, but I”ve never really understood what the difference is between ‘performance enhancing drugs’ and ‘supplements’. One is a concoction of man-made chemicals designed to enhance performance and recovery, the other is, err, a concoction of man-made chemicals designed to enhance performance and recovery.

    We had this as a debate in a medicinal chemistry lecture at uni.

    There isn’t a difference, carbohydrates fit all the same definitions of a drug as heroin.

    The usual justification for the banned substances (note, they don’t actualy refer to them as drugs) is they have a detrimental effect on the body as well. So a shot of B vitamins is legal, a shot of HGH isn’t.

    jfletch
    Free Member

    8 out 10 of the world’s fastest 100m sprinters have doped

    Ironically this is probably the reason Bolt doesn’t get the same amount of scurtiny by the press.

    The key phrase being that 8 out 10 have been caught. So athletics fans and journos still trust the system to catch people eventually*.

    But with cycling everyone got burned. Armstrong was, in the eyes of the public, the greatest cyclist ever. 7 TDFs. But people in the know always knew, and now everybody knows, that he was doped to the gills. But he never got caught, he famously never failed a test. Very few big names ever failed tests and only a very small percentance of doped riders have even been caught. This is in large part due to a failure of the UCI, some would say they were complicit in the era of doping.

    To compare to sprinting 10 out of 10 champion cyclists from the 90s and 00s were doping but the record books don’t show this. The UCI distroyed peoples trust in the system

    So the natural reaction to this is for fans and journalists to be overly sceptical. They failed to be sufficently sceptical of Armstrong and they aren’t going to make the same mistake again.

    But we have to get out of this vicious cycle or we will never be able enjoy a great performance again. Instead of Froomes performance on Ventoux being hailed as one of the greatests rides ever it is clouded in suspicion. But what if he is clean? What if in all our suspicion we have just failed to notice one of the great sporting performances? What a shame.

    *It is interesting to note that many more sprinters than endurnace athletes seem to get caught but the word on the street is that EPO is rife with long distance runners, a lot of them even work(ed) with Ferarri

    clubber
    Free Member

    Source

    What saggan Cav, and froome did not speak out them but they all know – evidence?
    By the time they were there the cheats did it in secret not in the team]HEL even Wiggos team was thrown out and he was unaware of it all

    I did say ‘some/most’ for exactly those reasons and yes, I think that many did know it was taking place because it was pretty clear even in the junior/U23 ranks. I’m be surprised if Wiggins wasn’t aware that it was happening even if not specifics in his team. Cav being a good bit younger probably less so, particularly by the time he turned pro and Sagan being that much younger, less still.

    In fact, a quick google shows a neat 5 year gap Wiggins(33)->Cav(and Froome, 28)->Sagan (23)

    clubber
    Free Member

    *It is interesting to note that many more sprinters than endurnace athletes seem to get caught but the word on the street is that EPO is rife with long distance runners, a lot of them even work(ed) with Ferarri

    Different drugs with different chances of getting caught using them probably. Cycling is catching people through EPO test and Bio passport. Even if the bio passport hasn’t caught lots of people, it’s forced them to use much less effective EPO type doping (to avoid failing the passport) rather than just changing the way they use EPO as happending in cycling when the EPO test was brought it – they just microdosed which they knew wouldn’t be detected alone.

    forzafkawi
    Free Member

    I regularly use the same performance enhancing drug that I have seen several cyclists use openly on the Tour this year. Maybe that’s what Sky used to power Froome to the win in their impromptu feed 10k from the finish.

    Theirs comes in a little red can, mine comes in a cup. That’s where the line begins to get very blurred I think.

    easyrider
    Free Member

    What about riders in the early tours using alcohol to increase performance?
    Not sure what increase it gave, apart from a drooping performance 😳

    warton
    Free Member

    Caffeine only has a real effect on performance if the person hasn’t been taking it, and then has quite a big dose, much more than in a can of coke.
    Riders drink coke more for the sugar rush, much like necking a gel

    easyrider
    Free Member

    No they don’t we used to drink flat coke for the caffeine, I got that tip from Barry Clarke, he was a top mtb’r
    Caffeine in redBull is great for 24 hrs racing.
    See even at lowly top amateur racing we are all up to it.
    Drink coffee before a race, it’s a diuretic.
    Doping is any substance which is on the banned list of substances, that is all there is to it?
    But how to define the banned substances, by chemical signature?
    I suppose the only true way is to define a rider passport, which gives a base line for performance…..

    UCI blood passport Q&A

    brakes
    Free Member

    using alcohol to increase performance?
    Not sure what increase it gave

    I’m guessing, but either gives confidence or a pain killer, or to balance out some of the effects of amphetamines?

    jfletch
    Free Member

    much like necking a gel

    Which probably has shit loads of caffine in it!

    And “G” freely admitted that his pre TTT build-up comprised of getting a massage and being taped up while drinking shit loads of coffee.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Surely all top level sprinters are physically well adapted to sprinting, otherwise they wouldn’t be sprinters?

    Exceptionally so in his case.

    I think you are allowed things that are available in natural food substances. So Carnitine, HMB and whatnot are okay, along with carbohydrates and electrolytes, because they are just concentrated versions of what’s in food.

    But I think they can ban specific things on merit. Cocaine for instance is from a plant, but not food.

    aracer
    Free Member

    in reality he most likely took a blood bag as well as doped.

    I thought the theory was that he took tainted blood.

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