nah they do not have chamois in them.

the cycling shorts – which i fully intend to buy are 135quid of so ….the tights were an experiment – a successful one

atm i wear my skins over my shorts when im doing timetrials – never under as they have a wide flat locked set of stitches running under the crotch , not an issue till you try doing a ride with them under the chamois lol

curious to try them for longer multi day rides but id like to get the shorts for that

tights = girls
compression tights = stuffing knob between thighs and pretending to be a big girl

cheers trail_rat

lol at simon, surely everyone cycling in lycra fits into the latter category

trail rat, yeah i did start wondering about the ventilation (for want of a better description) with running v cycling

did you find much dif between subarmour and skins? they'll just be for recovery not for running in

never had subarmour – was underarmour i had – they are a similar price to skins tbh and very similar in action tbh they are both very thin – but tight. I suggest prestretching hte neck in your hands before you put them on they are rather tight round the neck although that might just be because im a medium size with out of proportion shoulders/neck.

remember to use the chart and if in the middle go for the smaller size – they will stretch !

I've used Skins for years. I sometimes use them during multi-day races to let my legs recover a bit and also sleep in them quite a lot. They are not warm so don't try and use them as winter tights but they work for me. I've snorkelled in mine, paddled for 23hours in them, bike for far too many hours to think about and in most cases they seem to do something for recovery. And yeah don;t wear them straight onto your skin as those flatlocked seams are ther work of the devil on your undercarriage.

fontmoss – Member
…radcliffe wore a cooling vest in Athens

When I saw that I predicted she was going to bomb – that and pouring water over herself instead of drinking it.

I have spent a large part of my life in very hot places, much hotter than Athens. I used to run for long distances and there is no substitute for water. Loads of it and inside you. Drink it frequently and there's no need to add salt because your body will maintain its isotonic level.

right im 5 10 and 72 kg so by skins chart im a medium, does that mean i should go for a small??

don't worry epi when i head back to madrid i wont be doing much running 🙂

Drink it frequently and there's no need to add salt because your body will maintain its isotonic level.

only if your tongue is long enough to lick the salt off your skin…

simonfbarnes – Member
'Drink it frequently and there's no need to add salt because your body will maintain its isotonic level.'
only if your tongue is long enough to lick the salt off your skin…

If you are sweating salt it's because you either started off with too much or your fluid levels in your body have dropped.

I used to run long distances in temperatures between 30 – 40 degrees and regarded salt on my skin as a sign I wasn't keeping my fluids up. (Spent 30+ years in Far North Queensland and outback). I drank water only.

Your body only excretes salt if the loss of fluid raises the concentration of salt. Your body is trying to maintain the ratio of salt to fluid.

No – it means you go for a medium.

If you are sweating salt it's because you either started off with too much or your fluid levels in your body have dropped.

is this true or did you just make it up ?

SFB – sounds like it could be true to me. In this country we have way too much sat in our bodies.

SFB – sounds like it could be true to me.

is that how accuracy is established ? How long will it be before they discover that salt is very good for you after all ?

LMAO

Before going and slagging an idea it might be an idea to go and find out the role of salts in the body.

Before going and slagging an idea it might be an idea to go and find out the role of salts in the body.

I'm only slagging off assertion with evidence, as I have no idea if epicyclo is right or wrong

how many glasses of water on an average none exercise day does a 23 year old male need to drink and how much extra when exercising? loads before or just a steady pace within the exercise?

I did find this:
"As the name implies, the biggest difference between salty sweaters and other athletes is that salty sweaters lose more sodium when they sweat—in some cases, a lot more. Consider this: In a study of 10 football players, sodium losses during a two-hour practice ranged from 0.8g to 8.5g. In another study of top male tennis players during matches on a hot, humid day, average sodium loss was 2.7g per hour, but one player lost 12g of salt in an hour. " <http://www.training-conditioning.com/2007/08/salt_in_their_sweat.html&gt;

which says that some people become salt depleted due to sweating, presumably not merely due to dehydration

[correction of previous post] I'm only slagging off assertion without evidence

i know that in some sweat cells Sodium is excreted and as water follows sodium it goes out and can evaporate (the water) which should cool the body, the sodium should be re absorbed. I don't know a huge amount about it and i know it in relation to CFTR channels in cystic fibrosis rather than in exercise, maybe a sports scientist on here can explain what happens?

WTF -is a sweat cell?

WTF -is a sweat cell?

sweat gland perhaps ?

Ive been using skins compression tights for recovery from running since march. Best bit of kit I've ever bought. I find it is too hot to wear the tights over night just now, and so bought a pair of the knee length socks, and they work brilliantly as well. I will be buying another set to run in during winter time and for my next half marathon. I get no pain or aches after wearing them over night.

Try before you buy though, fit is crucial.I tried on 2xu but didn't find them as nice as skins.

Best of all, they are slinky 🙂

they are cells that secrete sodium and cholride in order to secrete water, i can try put up a couple of lecture slides but not sure it'll make more sense. As I said I only know about how they function in relation to CF but it was because simon said about salt depletion due to sweating rather than dehydration-ie i know if you lose salt then water will follow it but i dont how it interacts with dehydration

Go on then. fire up the lecture slides.

I use Skins compression tights and they work for me – not used other compression clothing or just normal tight leggings etc. so can't compare them anything else. Also got Skins compression socks but can't see any difference when I wear them – IMO the fit isn't as good.

Not sure it'll shed much light but fill yer boots

simonfbarnes – Member
'If you are sweating salt it's because you either started off with too much or your fluid levels in your body have dropped.'
is this true or did you just make it up ?

Practical experience gained in a very hot country. Think desert type heat and also jungle level humidity.

It may not fit current theory, but the practical application of this has enabled me to keep going in hot weather when fitter and faster people were dropping like flies.

but the practical application of this has enabled me to keep going in hot weather

but you may be a low salt sweater, in which case the experience is non transferrable

simonfbarnes – Member
'but the practical application of this has enabled me to keep going in hot weather'
but you may be a low salt sweater, in which case the experience is non transferrable

If I don't maintain fluid levels I sweat salt like everyone else.

If I don't maintain fluid levels I sweat salt like everyone else.

but how can you tell this? For all we know you may be deducing how hydrated you are by how salty your sweat is, in which case it's a self-fullfilling prediction

simonfbarnes – Member
but how can you tell this?

I lick my arm.

It may not fit your theory, but it worked for me in a climate where cold starts at 25 degrees.

Edit: just checked – it's midwinter where I used to live and the daytime temperature is 25-27 degrees.

It may not fit your theory

I haven't got a theory. However, what you described is exactly what I suggested as a circular argument ("For all we know you may be deducing how hydrated you are by how salty your sweat is")

Philosophy has never helped me when I'm hot, so you do it your way, I'll do it my way 🙂

so you do it your way

this is me doing it my way

calling sports scientists and physiologists to the forum! step forward please!

calling sports scientists and physiologists to the forum! step forward please!

not needed when the main protagonist is licking himself (or the windows ?) …

You asked the question, I gave the answer.

How do you determine your hydration levels – carry a laboratory about with you?

Anyway, it probably doesn't matter in this country because it doesn't get hot here for long – if at all.

Ok, this sweating thing has been just getting utterly ridiculous.

There is some basic and very well understood physiology behind this that doesn't support the rather odd ideas being bandied about here.

Firstly.

Drink it frequently and there's no need to add salt because your body will maintain its isotonic level.

I think you'll find its a bit more complicated than that (i.e. you're wrong)

Pretty much every physiological system within the body operates to maintain homeostasis. That is operating within normal limits, go above or below these and you get in trouble. Fontmoss' lecture slides showing Na2+ is correct as it is the only way to transport water across the cell membrane against the osmotic gradient. This means that salt is lost during sweating.

However as you lose Na2+ you also lose water so the concentration of Na remains relatively similar. This dehydration results in the cardiac drift that you will notice on your HRM as your heart rate increases to compensate for the dropping pressure through fluid loss. Without drinking this will result in hypovolemic hyponatremia, i'll talk more about this in a minute.

When you begin to take in (pure not isotonic electrolytes) water two things happen. Firstly the hypotonic osmotic gradient in your intestines will draw more electrolytes into your gut. This results in some of the stomach cramps and funky stomachs during endurance events. Once this water starts to get absorbed, the net electrolyte concentration (Cl- K+ Na2+ etc) in your body begins to drop as you have increased the volume of liquid but not replaced the solutes that have been lost.

Continue down this road for too long and hyponatremia begins to set in. More specifically this is hypervolemic hyponatremia where water levels have been kept high but sodium has steadily decreased.

With low sodium levels outwith the cell, fluid begins to flow into the cell, where the higher ion concentrations are (water will always flow from a high concentration to a low concentration but within a cell ion movement is carefully controlled). This results in the cell swelling and eventually bursting. This becomes a serious problem within the central nervous system as the brain begins to undergo oedema and swell within the skull which being a solid lump of bone is unable to undergo this same expension.

At its most serious this results in compression of the brain stem and eventually death. Very similar to what happens during a brain bleed.

This is hyponatremia at its most extreme but is not an uncommon occurrence in endurance athletes. In case you don't believe me here are some scientific papers on the subject.

Hyponatremia during Ironman
Ultra-endurance marathons

Even though these are extreme examples, dehydration is the number one cause of failure in endurance events. Any exercise over an hour in length really requires some electrolyte replacement.

Here's an article about cycling, even a 1.8% dehydration had a marked effect on performance. Effects of dehydration on cyclists

This is why people use isotonic drinks, or salt tablets during racing, its just sensible. If your serious about training and racing then i strongly suggest looking at some training manuals or some basic sports physiology books, you'll probably find your performance shoots up.

Again fontmoss is right, what do you think sweat glands are made up from? Sweat cells!

Or you could just be magic and get by through licking yourself? LMAO.