Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)
  • complimentary running and cycling training
  • wobbliscott
    Free Member

    It seems that under the influence on Friday night I agreed to do next years London Marathon in front of a bunch of witnesses and with video evidence, so no getting out of it now. It’s not so bad, as much as I don’t like running a goal like this is probably what I need to step up my general fitness and maybe get over my dislike of running, and doing the London Marathon is one of those ‘bucket list’ things. The problem/complication is that I don’t want the Marathon training to impact too heavily on my cycling endeavours, with a road Alps trip and an MTB Alps trip planned for next year and a challenging sportive. Looking at the usual Marathon training plans you get on the internet it doesn’t leave much time to squeeze in any cycling.

    Anyone got any training plans they can recommend that combines running and cycling? Maybe something more duathlon or triathlon based? I tend to cycle 3 times a week, so do have time to commit to running.

    I am a novice runner. Can manage about 10k maybe at a not very impressive time, and would like to get a semi decent Marathon time rather than to just walk it – maybe inside of 4h30m would be a target? no idea if that is a sensible target or not.

    Cheers

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    I’m in a similar boat (probably doing an ‘iron’ distance duathlon next year), so similar in terms of training to a marathon and road alps trip.

    The good news is you only usually cycle 3 days a week at the moment, so you’ve got loads of scope to add running.

    Having done some reading, the key seems to be to keep the intensity down and make sure you get the regularity in. Since you are doing distinct events rather than both disciplines in one event, you can change your focus as you go.
    Maybe something along the lines of 3 runs, and 2 easy rides per week until marathon is done, then transition to bike 4 times a week after.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    I do more running over the winter, then a spring marathon, then more cycling over the summer. Given British weather that actually works out pretty well and I’ve managed to transfer back to cycling fitness pretty easily this year. As many easy runs per week as you can be bothered with and make one of them long (gradually building up to about 20 miles) is a basic starting point. Don’t overdo it early on though, work up the mileage gradually.

    How reasonable your target is depends how fast your 10k was. But 4:30 should be pretty straightforward for most people.

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    Tallpaul
    Full Member

    How are you getting your place in the Marathon? (no point training for an event you can’t actually get a place for).

    Regarding target time, what are your current 5km and 10km PB’s?

    Certainly possible to mix training types and recommended to prevent injury. But, you’ll need to very much be focused on training to run with a bit of cycling in between. Not the other way round. You’ll also need to consider some strength and conditioning.

    From your position, I’d target a half marathon in about 12 weeks, train for that and see how you go. Then reassess you goals and decide how you want to build up to the marathon over the following 4-5 months.

    curto80
    Free Member

    I can probably give you some perspective on this coming out of my 8 month training plan for City to Summit which I did last month.

    The key thing you have to remember is that being in top running shape will allow you to cycle pretty much anything. You may not be in absolutely top bike shape but you will get round. However being in top bike shape won’t help you at all to get round the marathon. Therefore your training programme has to be a running programme with some cycling mixed in. Don’t try and balance it half and half.

    I did a road marathon as part of my training. Leading up that I basically followed a marathon programme with some cycling as cross training. The key is to mix it up and train your heart through the different zones. You also need a proper long term plan that properly builds towards the event and also contains easy weeks.

    Make sure you have a VO2 max session, a tempo session and a longer, low intensity run in your week. Then use one or two rides or turbo sessions for either some recovery or some strength work.

    As I said my programme was run orientated even though there was 120 miles of cycling in my event. Plus it got me round the Club des Cingles a week later.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    I can probably give you some perspective on this coming out of my 8 month training plan for City to Summit which I did last month.

    The key thing you have to remember is that being in top running shape will allow you to cycle pretty much anything. You may not be in absolutely top bike shape but you will get round. However being in top bike shape won’t help you at all to get round the marathon. Therefore your training programme has to be a running programme with some cycling mixed in. Don’t try and balance it half and half.

    I did a road marathon as part of my training. Leading up that I basically followed a marathon programme with some cycling as cross training. The key is to mix it up and train your heart through the different zones. You also need a proper long term plan that properly builds towards the event and also contains easy weeks.

    Make sure you have a VO2 max session, a tempo session and a longer, low intensity run in your week. Then use one or two rides or turbo sessions for either some recovery or some strength work.

    As I said my programme was run orientated even though there was 120 miles of cycling in my event. Plus it got me round the Club des Cingles a week later.

    Interesting – City to Summit is the event i’ll probably be doing – how did you get on – I saw the weather was a bit horrendous, and even the fastest guy was something like 3hrs behind schedule 😯

    Also interested by your training approach, as its the complete opposite to both of the ironman books i have read, which both say that the bike is critical to success, and should also be the biggest part of training as you can accumulate the most time at X heart rate for the minimum stress on the body.

    Just starting putting myself a plan together, but think i’ll be aiming for 5 days a week, 3 bikes, 3 runs. Don’t expect to be doing much intensity at all.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    Depends if you’re racing the event or completing it.

    Completing it, just slowly build up distance per week.

    curto80
    Free Member

    Dude I get what you’re saying but if you wanna do City to Summit remember you have to run up a mountain at the end. I felt so strong on the last run, flying past people on the WHW, and think I had the second or third fastest time from the Ben back down to the finish.

    The advantage of having a high intensity session in your week is it will make the long slow stuff seem easier. I eased off on the intensity towards the end but for the first 5 or 6 months I found those sessions invaluable.

    Yeah the weather was horrendous and only 50 odd out of 170 finished. It was all mental though really. Training your brain is important – i’d trained by deliberately going out and doing training sessions that were hard. So finding head winds to ride into, hill reps in the heat, that sort of stuff.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    You will probably end up fitter runnig than you would do cycling.

    What I now find is that my threshold is higher than it was when I just used to bike.

    The downside is that you miss power in your legs for cycling. However it soon comes back after a few decent rides.

    ahsat
    Full Member

    What I now find is that my threshold is higher than it was when I just used to bike.

    Likewise, though never measured properly, just through experience riding up hills. General leg strengthing through the winter will help both sports as well.

    lunge
    Full Member

    I’m currently doing similar, marathon training whilst also doing a few bike events at the same time.

    I’ve very much prioritised running and the cycling is something as an afterthought. My thinking is that I’m pretty bike fit and the running will improve overall fitness anyway. Current plan involves 3 runs per week (1 x 5k fast, 1 x internals, 1 x long run at a touch faster than marathon pace) and 3 bike rides (1 x fast commute, 1 x recovery commute, 1 x long ride). That gives me a very heavy weekend (15 mile ish run Saturday, 70 or 80 miles on the bike Sunday), lots of shorter and faster stuff in the week and a day off Friday.

    So far, it seems to be working, I’m faster on both bike and run and don’t feel beaten up in the week either.

    brassneck
    Full Member

    The key thing you have to remember is that being in top running shape will allow you to cycle pretty much anything. You may not be in absolutely top bike shape but you will get round. However being in top bike shape won’t help you at all to get round the marathon.

    Very much this. I more or less stopped riding when I did a 16 mile trail run a couple of years back, but found I was doing fine when I went back to it. Nothing alpine, but just the odd ride here and there focussing on hill efforts is probably your best bet overall.

    surfer
    Free Member

    I agree with Curto80.

    I was in good racing shape (32 min 10k) a number of years ago and coming up to 40 so looking forward to being competitive as a vet. I picked up an injury that meant I couldnt run for the best part of 11 months! I never really got back to competitive running (although I still run as much as I can) but in my frustration I turned to road cycling and did a few time trials. I wouldnt claim to be great but I was half decent off my running training. When my injury cleared up and I was able to run again I felt like I got little benefit from the cycling!

    Competitive training has to be specific, other sports contribute but mainly as active rest. To be a good runner you have to focus on running.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    IMO:

    Running and Cycling are two distinct disciplines. Both do compliment each other, however since you are coming from a cycling background you will need to start slowly and build up both pace and distance. You’ll already have the cardio, but you’ll need to build muscles around the knees and ankles.
    Take it easy, do shorter runs off road for the first few weeks, ease off if you have knee injuries or suspect you’ll get them because trying to run through them will result in pain and not being able to run for a few weeks.
    I’d say start running off road on dirt footpaths, then head to the woods. The reason? It’s slower, more technical and less stress on joints.

    iMO.

    irelanst
    Free Member

    I did my first marathon after 15 years of not running on the “FIRST” training plan, 3 runs a week and cycling as cross training on the other days. 80:20 running has the option to substitute running with cross training as well.

    But as mentioned, how are you getting a London place, ballot and GFA entries have closed for 2018.

    wobbliscott
    Free Member

    How are you getting your place in the Marathon? (no point training for an event you can’t actually get a place for).

    Regarding target time, what are your current 5km and 10km PB’s?

    Good point on getting a place. If I can’t I’ve got an extra year to train! I would like to do it for charity because it will be a big challenge for me. I’m not built for running – stocky, heavy for my height – always have been, definitely more of a sprinter than endurance athlete. Definitely one of those guys with a laboured running style than an effortless floaty one – some people just look like they were born to run….that’s not me.

    My 5KM time is around 23 mins, or was a couple of years ago when I did a sprint Tri. No way I could hold that pace for much more than 5KM though, not at the minute, so I would expect my pace to drop off considerably over 10KM. I have free access to a 400m tartan running track that is close to work too, so that can come in handy for lunchtime training.

    Glad to hear the two disciplines are at least complimentary. I’ve always known that the best upgrade I can do for my cycling would be to loose some weight, and having a challenge on the running and cycling, which I approach as more of a fun and social pursuit rather than hard-core training, should add a bit more motivation and impetus to my efforts. I think i’ll kick off with the 3 run and 3 cycles per week for now until I get my running kicked off then try to tailor more. Last time I did some running I did pick up some injury’s early on – shin splints and pulled calf, so need to get into the running gently.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    IMO lunge is running far too fast and hard. Getting round a marathon is mostly about time/distance, sure a little bit of speed work is useful but it shouldn’t be a dominant fraction of the training.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    Yeah the weather was horrendous and only 50 odd out of 170 finished. It was all mental though really. Training your brain is important – i’d trained by deliberately going out and doing training sessions that were hard. So finding head winds to ride into, hill reps in the heat, that sort of stuff.

    Luckily, having done several 7-24hr MTB events i’ve pretty much got the mental bit sorted. Not entirely surprised at the attrition rate – looking at the photos there seemed to be a lot of very badly prepared people (112mi into a headwind wearing a massive flappy waterproof seemed a popular if somewhat bamboozling choice).

    finbar
    Free Member

    The key thing you have to remember is that being in top running shape will allow you to cycle pretty much anything. You may not be in absolutely top bike shape but you will get round. However being in top bike shape won’t help you at all to get round the marathon.

    100% this. I have run fairly well in the past (2.35 marathon, 16.21 5km etc.). This year I have focussed more on cycling than I ever have before – averaging 120-180 miles a week since February – and my running is absolutely woeful.

    lunge
    Full Member

    IMO lunge is running far too fast and hard. Getting round a marathon is mostly about time/distance, sure a little bit of speed work is useful but it shouldn’t be a dominant fraction of the training.

    That’s a fair point if I was struggling for distance. I’ve deliberately sped up the mid-week 5k as it felt like junk miles when being done at a slower pace. The long run distance is fine, I’m not at marathon distance yet but I’ve got 3 months to go anyway, however, I am at 15 ish miles and pace is faster than I plan to run the marathon.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Fair enough if you’re aiming for a fairly comfortable time I suppose. 15 miles at anything faster than marathon pace sounds pretty much like a flat-out race to me!

    chief1409
    Free Member

    The key thing you have to remember is that being in top running shape will allow you to cycle pretty much anything. You may not be in absolutely top bike shape but you will get round. However being in top bike shape won’t help you at all to get round the marathon.

    +1
    I only started running around 3 months ago and found that even getting up to running 10km in a decent time took a long time in comparison to what i was hoping for given i thought i was fit due to my cycling.
    In contrast, i’ve done very little cycling since apart from my regular commute. Got back out for the local Sunday group ride yesterday (which admittedly isn’t a “big” ride) after a trip up Glen Tilt on Saturday and found both absolutely fine.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)

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