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  • Commuting. Is it just a matter of time…
  • nickewen
    Free Member

    before I’m involved in a RTA?

    I’ve got a solid run in the office this week (after months of being out and about at clients via train/car) so dusted off the commuter and cycled in all week.

    I ride with what I would say is a “medium” level of defensiveness.. I don’t ride in the gutter but don’t want to get my head squashed under a car wheel just to prove a point either. However, the number of close passes is really pissing me off, especially when it’s normally followed by a nice jab of a brake pedal to slow for a junction (I was overtaken by the same guy 3 times in his GL wagon today and each time it was close and he never learned his lesson that it was fruitless). Had a couple of left hooks just this week as well which are particularly scary.

    I was however very appreciative of the car that gave me a particularly wide birth last night going completely on the wrong side of the road.. Not sure the car coming the other way that did an emergency stop was as happy!

    Just musings more than anything but these daily reminders of my own mortality have got me thinking is it just a matter of time? How can we get people to be more considerate to the squishy cyclists on the roads? Personally, I think some hard-hitting adverts would be really beneficial showing the difference between a human head hitting something hard at 30mph and a 1.5T car hitting something hard at 30mph..

    For the record – no cam but seriously thinking of getting one!

    jimdubleyou
    Full Member

    London? Then pretty much yes if you’re going a significant distance on the roads.

    I have a Fly6 which seems to work fairly well.

    ton
    Full Member

    I have cycle commuted for 33 years, been hit twice in that time, one hit ended with a visit to hospital.
    over the last few years, I have noticed it getting a bit worse on the roads, people seem less patient, which I find odd, as more and more people own bikes.
    I now ride out of my way to stay away from busy roads and fast moving traffic. my direct route to work is 6 mile, I do 11 miles to stay away from traffic.

    try and find a alternative route if possible. worse thing to do is get drawn into road rage incidents, they don’t end well.

    stay safe.

    lowey
    Full Member

    I had the closest shave ever on Monday. Big rigid wagon tried to overtake me at lights and had to cut in when cab was level with me to miss standing traffic. Properly shit me up. I thought that it was it! Managed to get the name of the company and called them up. Grovelling apology from owner of company and promise to haul the guy over the coals.

    Still, its not much use if I was under the back wheels.

    oldfart
    Full Member

    I’ve felt like this for a long time sadly :-(. Only a 4 mile commute, I usually do the ” iffy” section down a country lane which results in meeting tractors or Arctics on blind corners :-(. I can see or hear them but not vice versa 🙁
    My wife would like me to take the car especially during the winter but I’m too stubborn 🙁 That feels like giving in to them . Although when it’s hammering down with rain it is nice to think I’ve got the car to go home in 🙂

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    I completely changed my commute in spring last year after 6 months of commuting the most direct way because it was just too dangerous. I’m also a medium defensive rider and my route involved two A roads.

    I’ve adjusted the route now so I ride home on farm tracks for the first 5 miles then on quiet lanes for the last 10 and ride in on the mountain bike with about 3 miles of a 19 mile ride on roads. It’s much more engaging, and a lot safer, but it’s not an option for everyone.

    stevedrakey
    Free Member

    I was heading up a country lane yesterday that was tight and steep in Tod, a very large 4×4 kept beeping at me to get past!! so yes, they are idiots on the road.. I had no place to go my only option would have been to stand in the bush at the side of the road.

    I have also been knock of once and visited a&e this was once when I used to commute, I commuted for about 4 years. I tend to MTB now.

    But, all said I read a report that suggested the general health of a cyclist is so much better than a non cyclist even when you factor in the knocks and a4e visits. ofc, any fatal or life changing accident would not be welcome.

    I have seen these about, maybe they help?

    jonba
    Free Member

    I’ve been hit once in 10 years of commuting. Got up and rode away so I was lucky.

    Ride defensively. A good road position is essential. I’ve had a handful of people shout at me riding in a secondary position because they’ve struggled to overtake. On more than one occasion it has given me somewhere to go other than under the wheels of a close passing HGV.

    Pick your route. I’ve gone for longer and quieter over short and busy. It can be enjoyable testing your ninja skills in traffic but after a few years I just want an easy/safe/long life.

    njee20
    Free Member

    I have seen these about, maybe they help

    Help you look like a dick? Yep, they do that! 😉

    Of course it’s only a matter of time. Ride enough and something will happen. You can lessen the risk by riding sensibly, bright lights etc, but that’s it. Just hope you don’t die.

    willard
    Full Member

    All this is making me feel less good about getting the road bike out and doing the 12 miles from home to the office on it. That’s partially through Cambridge too.

    nickewen
    Free Member

    Cheers for the replies. Sounds like route choice is going to be the most effective action for me. It’s a commute from Gateshead to Newcastle of about 7 miles but a bit of re-planning could get me off some busy routes and only add 1-2 miles. Mind you the dickheed in the GL wagon this morning did his close pass about 25 metres from my front door! Took a mental note of his numberplate (some letters and numbers trying to say “Gordon”)… not sure why but he must be local.

    STATO
    Free Member

    ‘ve had a handful of people shout at me riding in a secondary position because they’ve struggled to overtake. On more than one occasion it has given me somewhere to go other than under the wheels of a close passing HGV.

    This. The point of riding away from the gutter is two fold, 1. to disuade passing when inappropriate. 2. to give yourself some space to move into (and be able to stop safely if required) when someone does pass too close, or a lorry/bus pulls across on you.

    It’s a commute from Gateshead to Newcastle of about 7 miles but a bit of re-planning could get me off some busy routes and only add 1-2 miles.

    Post up a rough google of your route (obviously not pointing out your house!!), plenty on Geordies on here who might be able to help (inc. me)

    woody2000
    Full Member

    I reckon things have actually improved (on my commute at least). I’ve been cycle commuting for the last 14 years and I used to regularly get close passed, abusive drivers etc etc, but that seems to be happening less and less. I never feel like it’s only a matter of time before I have an accident & certainly no more/no less than I do when using any other form of transport.

    Like Ton & others, I pick a quiet and longer route to make the whole experience less stressful. Ride a good metre or more out from the kerb and cars give you a wider berth. I find a few well timed wobbles can make people give you more room too, they wouldn’t want to get their cars scratched after all 🙂

    I think GrahamS is in your neck of the woods OP, maybe he can help with a route

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    Yeah probably some sort of car bike interface is pretty likely at some point but there’s a lot scope for insignificant accidents. I’ve been riding on and off road for 30 years including 8 years of commuting into central London every day and I’ve been hit by cars 3 times. Fortunately none of them were any worse than a run of the mill trailside off.

    Worst places to ride always feel like the suburbs, in central London the traffic moves pretty slowly and there’s so much of it that people seem a little more cautious. Get to the ‘burbs though and all hell breaks loose as drivers suddenly find the space to use the accelerator.

    Best tip I can think of for commuting is to do the same route and really learn from all the near misses and generally try to perfect the journey, become aware of the bits that are especially dodgy and if you assess that they are too dodgy find an alternative, even if it means walking a junction. It probably took me about 18 months of commuting to the same place before i felt like I had everything as safe as i could make it. I was still at the mercy of randomness, tiredness and outright carelessness but after about a year and a half I felt like I’d sussed out most of the controllable elements on that journey. Not sure if it was coincidence or not but I also became a lot more relaxed and less confrontational from that point onwards which was also a help.

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    …just a matter of time?

    yes, it’ll happen, you’ll be riding sensibly, and visible from space. but eventually some dickhead will do something stupid/lazy that may well kill you.

    you just sort of get used to it.

    (i’m amazed that cycle-commuting is as popular as it is. my wife occasionally talks about starting, just the thought makes me feel nauseous)

    TPTcruiser
    Full Member

    Now have “Gordon is a moron” ear worm…
    Stay safe, choose your route wisely.
    Punto drivers are my personal nemesis but there are many considerate drivers. The majority you don’t see because they wait and let you pass their left turn.

    huws
    Free Member

    I ride most days in London and don’t find it that bad, 15km each way, almost all of it on the south circular. Although the traffic is faster I prefer the wider multilane roads as drivers tend to give you a bit more space and complain less when you take some for yourself. I do ride as fast as possible at all times which seems to reduce the number of impatient idiots. London drivers are generally very good around bikes.

    I’ve often pondered on what the inevitable crash will be and I’ve come to the conclusion that it’ll be a pedestrian crossing without looking while I’m filtering. Hopefully it’ll be slow enough that neither of us gets hurt.

    andysredmini
    Free Member

    I have been commuting for about 20 years and have been hit twice. Both completely unavoidable by me so I just had to watch them both happen. Both fairly minor luckily and I don’t worry about it happening again. I’m sure it will but it could just as easily happen if I walked to work or went in the car.

    bails
    Full Member

    Worst places to ride always feel like the suburbs, in central London the traffic moves pretty slowly and there’s so much of it that people seem a little more cautious. Get to the ‘burbs though and all hell breaks loose as drivers suddenly find the space to use the accelerato

    Yeah, my commute is pretty much 12 miles of suburb (City-small town-village-town, but they’ve all kind of merged into one without any proper gaps) and I think that’s worse than really heavy, slow traffic. EVeryone’s rushing, and they’ve got enough space to get speed up. If a car is sitting at a standstill the worst the driver can do is move over to block you. But meet a range rover doing 40mph round the wrong side of a junction to get past a queue…..

    leftyboy
    Free Member

    Stopped commuting after I was hit whilst riding along a cycle path on the pavement, the car that I hit turned across me leaving me no-where to go. My current office is situated such that I can’t find a safe route in, it’s probably the last 3 -4 miles of a 14 mile route that is a mix of busy cycle paths, busy roads and a stretch that’s often dangerous in a car!

    I miss the extra training, I would ride the long ~33 mile route back, but the above incident left me with a broken hand, a knackered knee that required surgery , 2 bulged discs in my neck a a C5 fracture so it doesn’t seem worth it.

    I now MTB more and run a couple of times a week on safer routes.

    edlong
    Free Member

    Hesitant to tempt fate and say it, but I’ve been commuting on and off for nearly 20 years and so far, touch wood etc, no trips to A&E.

    The only two “offs” I’ve had were both my fault, in both cases I rear ended braking cars due to sub-standard brakes. The most recent of these (which isn’t that recent) came on the morning when I’d thought to myself, as I set off “these brakes really need tightening, better do that later” – lesson learnt, brakes aren’t put off until later.

    Barring being rear-ended at random, I honestly think as a rider you can avoid pretty much anything that’ll wipe you out with planning, anticipation, attention and sometimes the right amount of assertion (not aggression – I think there’d be fewer incidents if people didn’t confuse the two).

    And even the risk of being rear-ended can be mitigated by all round situational awareness – there was a thread on here a while ago where I was surprised how many riders professed to being “surprised” by traffic approaching from behind.

    I could go on all day about individual bits of “roadcraft” – when to take the lane, how to filter safely etc etc etc but you can look it up online or do a course or practice the f*** out of it. The basic principles that seem to have got me away with it up until now include:

    1) Assume that, if another road user could do something that will f*** you up, no matter how illegal, brainless, pointless or unlikely, they will. Most times they won’t, but sometimes they will, and on those occasions you’re expecting it, you’re ready for it, and you’ve got a plan for dealing with it. You can play a game with this – you are a secret agent and the enemy have sent assassins to kill you – you don’t know who they are and what they look like but you know they are going to try to kill you on your bike and make it look like an accident…

    2) Pay attention to everything, from every angle. Yes, this will involve moving your head. Pedestrians wearing headphones may step out in front of you without warning, and without looking but they do not, as I’ve read on the internet too many times, “appear out of nowhere” – there’s a pedestrian walking along the pavement? Assume they’re going to step out without warning… When they do, you can easily miss them with a rapid swerve away and into the road. You can do that because you’ve been paying attention to everything, including what’s going on behind you, so you know it’s clear behind….

    3) Alright, just one bit of roadcraft – take the lane at traffic lights so the nob in the skip lorry can’t pull alongside prior to a classic “left hook” when the lights change.

    4) and finally, never, ever, ever rely on the law, the highway code, common sense or reasonable expectations of other road users. It will be scant consolation to my orphaned kids that Daddy’s final words were “but I had right of way*”

    *I know that’s not what “right of way” means and it should be “priority” but that’s how people say it, and I dare say even my pedantry will be limited if I’ve got 20 tons of badly driven HGV squeezing the life out me.

    dragon
    Free Member

    Route planning to avoid HGV’s is the big bit for me. Oh and being 100% switched on all the time. I had to stop in the middle of a roundabout the other day when a Scottish water truck just barreled up the dual carriageway and straight through without braking. Luckily had spotted him from miles off and just watched him all the way. Tw*t.

    jakd95
    Free Member

    I’ve been cycling round and through Leeds in the two years while at uni, in my first term I was hit and knocked off by a van. While it wasn’t my fault it radically change the way I ride on the road around the city.

    Coming from Shropshire I had never cycled in a city before coming to Leeds. I am now acutely aware of cars pulling out from junctions without looking, staying well away from car doors and trying to always ride defensively and assuming every car is out to get me. Despite this I’ve since had a number of close calls, mostly from drivers paying no attention or being on their phones, despite not riding carelessly and having lights etc.

    jakd95
    Free Member

    Another thing, it surprises me the number of people who ride around in the dark with no lights. And people wearing headphones while riding on the road, seems like a great way to reduce your awareness and increase your chances of getting hit.

    avdave2
    Full Member

    I was knocked to the ground by a flock of sheep being herded into a truck on one occasion. Even with no traffic on a commute there’s still things out there trying to kill you.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    And even the risk of being rear-ended can be mitigated by all round situational awareness – there was a thread on here a while ago where I was surprised how many riders professed to being “surprised” by traffic approaching from behind.

    I was probably one of them, if a car is doing 40mph, and you’re on an average bit of country road with bends every 100m then the car will on average be in line of sight for 2 seconds (it’s covering the 100m in 4 seconds). Given that above a pootle wind noise overcomes even an articulated lorry behind you, to sense the car coming would require you to look back more often than every 2 seconds.

    edlong
    Free Member

    @tinas – a fair point, and why I think it’s a risk that could be mitigated rather than eradicated altogether. That’s not the scenario on my commute, but I wonder if that sort of situation is one where those bar-end mirrors might be of value? Genuine question, I’ve never tried using mirrors on a bike – anyone have any useful experience?

    kcr
    Free Member

    20+ years commuting for me, hit once by a car. Ironically, this was when I was on a cycle path, so even getting off road doesn’t guarantee safety.
    My totally subjective view is that although there are more people cycling, it feels more dangerous. Perhaps this is simply because the roads are busier, so there are just more bad drivers out there. The benefits of cycle commuting still far outweigh the risks for me, however

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    I honestly think as a rider you can avoid pretty much anything that’ll wipe you out with planning, anticipation, attention and sometimes the right amount of assertion

    Nonsense IMO.

    You’re reducing some of the risk, that’s all. Even then, you are not infallible and incapable of making mistakes yourself, no-one is, including the people you share the road with.

    I’ve been commuting around 17 years, no accidents (yet), but I’m under no illusions that a large amount of risk is outside of my control.

    The only accident i did have was in the car, when someone waiting at a side road pulled out straight into the side of my car in broad daylight, having watched me approach for at least 10 seconds. If i was on a bike, i’d have been knocked into the opposite lane. It was a learner drive, maybe they had a lapse of concentration, or looked the other way, who knows.

    brooess
    Free Member

    Some good advice up there but really, I wouldn’t assume getting hit is a certainty – it isn’t. You’ve far more influence over driver behaviour than you realise, and 100% control over your own observations, anticipation and actions…

    My tips:
    1. Bikeability and Cycle Craft by John Franklin, do the Bikeability and read the book – you’ll learn lots about road position, observation and managing traffic
    2. Remember you’re not a second class citizen when you’re riding. Those who think you should ride in the gutter or always let traffic past are flat wrong – they’ve not read the highway code.
    3. Always assume the drivers around you are about to do the stupidest thing possible and have a plan ready in case they do
    4. Eye contact with drivers – over your shoulder, to those at the side and all around – it humanises you and you get a better idea of how well they’re watching you and what they’re about to do
    5. Pick a route down quiet side streets and avoid roundabouts and right turns where possible
    6. You’ll find there are certain road/infrastucture designs which seem to have conflict designed into them e.g. pedestrian refuges. Find a route away from these places.

    Life is not without risk. Riding a bike is not any more risky than lots of other things in life so expecting to be able to eliminate it is daft. But you can expect it and mitigate against it.

    I’ve been riding in London for 5 years c 80-100 miles/week and whilst I’ve had plenty of harassment and abuse, I’ve not once been hit. However, I’ve been to hospital 3 times in 8 years with broken bones – every time was me falling off my MTB in Surrey Hills…

    pdw
    Free Member

    hit once by a car. Ironically, this was when I was on a cycle path, so even getting off road doesn’t guarantee safety.

    On the contrary, my least favourite bit of my commute are the roads with on-pavement cycle paths. Definitely more dangerous than staying on the road, but you need to be pretty thick-skinned to not use them.

    fasthaggis
    Full Member

    Same total hit ratio as Ton,twice in over 30yrs commuting.
    They were both in London (11yr tour of duty).

    STATO
    Free Member

    I honestly think as a rider you can avoid pretty much anything that’ll wipe you out with planning, anticipation, attention and sometimes the right amount of assertion

    Nonsense IMO.

    You’re reducing some of the risk, that’s all. Even then, you are not infallible and incapable of making mistakes yourself, no-one is, including the people you share the road with.[/quote]

    I think there is more that you can do as a cyclists than most would realise. I see a lot of people that just dont bother paying attention, like its too much effort (mind you get the same from drivers). It probably seems daft to many of us on here, but as you said there is a lot you can do to reduce risk, its just a lot of people dont seem to realise they need to.

    BillOddie
    Full Member

    Agree with most of the tips above.

    But would add, wear bright eye catching clothing (not necessarily Hi-Viz) and get one of those retina searing rear lights, like a Bontrager Flare.

    benp1
    Full Member

    Cars still hit other cars – Sorry mate, I didn’t see you (SMIDSY)

    If they can hit a metal box weighing over a ton then can hit a piddly little cyclist

    I ride a motorbike too, same applies

    I like my commute though, I’ll keep going as long as I can. I try to ride sensibly and defensively whenever possible

    poly
    Free Member

    I ride with what I would say is a “medium” level of defensiveness.. I don’t ride in the gutter but don’t want to get my head squashed under a car wheel just to prove a point either.

    I don’t think you understand defensive riding. Done properly it reduces not enhances the chance of car-head interaction

    I was overtaken by the same guy 3 times in his GL wagon today and each time it was close and he never learned his lesson that it was fruitless).

    I’m not trying to criticise you – there are plenty of idiots on the road who repeatedly pass cyclists for no gain… …however is the flipside not that you must also have passed this guy at least twice. I often see this in busy cities, and cyclists seem to be determined to beat the car and vice versa. If you just ducked in behind the dick next time you catch up with him then he stays in a place where he can do you no more harm. You may arrive at your destination 1 minute later.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    I now ride out of my way to stay away from busy roads and fast moving traffic. my direct route to work is 6 mile, I do 11 miles to stay away from traffic.

    try and find a alternative route if possible. worse thing to do is get drawn into road rage incidents, they don’t end well.

    This +1.

    The extra distance doesn’t bother me, i like cycling, not fighting with idiots in cars…

    also look at timings i used to find the worst instances of driving 8:45, 20 minutes from town! Aiming to arrive at 8:30/ 9:30 instead of 9 made a huge improvement.

    nickewen
    Free Member

    1st half:

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/DcaQzY]Route_1[/url] by VeeeDubStar, on Flickr

    2nd half:
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/CpmoaZ]Route_2[/url] by VeeeDubStar, on Flickr

    For any geordies out there with route suggestions… second half is a doddle actually and involve a cycle path and a normally empty bus route by the banks of the Tyne. It’s very satisfying cycling underneath the very congested Redheugh Bridge!

    nickewen
    Free Member

    Poly – point taken. “Gordon” was in a queue of about 15-20 other cars that I filtered past – maybe I should take note of close passers and not filter in such scenarios.

    flybywire
    Free Member

    track stand behind “gordon” with 2000lumens through the rear window might help when “waiting” 😆

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