Just been to the doc, and after a short chat regarding the anti depressants I take having much less of an effect than they maybe should, it was decided that I come off them and go without for 6 weeks to see how I feel.

In the meantime I am to eat better, take more exercise and only do things that make me happy (ie not take on any new wacky ideas that I normally come up with)

It’s gonna be tough, but is there anything natural I can take, supplement wise, to boost my already low serotonin levels?

I use St John’s Wort – certaintly worth a google. Seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence that it works, though alas I can’t confirm that it’s made me deliriously happy 🙂

Well not boost Serotonin but, herbally, you might want to try Vervain / Verbena Officianalis (you can drink it as a tea) which is supposed to help with depression.

I wouldn’t go for the st johns wort – it is effective but it is simply another SSRI. it has its place tho. One thing at a time. maybe start that in a few weeks time

I’d taper over a couple of weeks as well on the meds.

I switched to St John’s Wort in April after being on Prozac for 18 months and it seems to be working okay as I normally hate this time of year with its darkness and crap weather, but I seem fairly level at the moment and it has also seemed to reduce my anxiety levels – I am remarkably calm for someone recently made unemployed.

I hope it goes well for you 🙂

lots of different options available re anti-depressants. Surprised they are suggesting coming straight off them rather than winding down slowly?

Surprised they are suggesting coming straight off them rather than winding down slowly?

God yes. It took me six months during which time I was all over the place (and unaware of it). My Dr reckoned that was pretty quick. Was not on a high dose either.

For once I am in agreement with TJ 😆 St. John Wort works in the same way as any good old fashioned SSRI. And that is precisely why they say do not take it whilst also taking an AD unless you want to run the risk of Serotonin Syndrome

You could look up natural EPA supplements (an especially pure form of Omega 3 fats) – I think VegEPA.com sell them (not cheap though). There is good scientifc evidence that these work to beat Depression by strengthening the Phosolipid layer in the brain, which many suggest is as much the cause of depression as is as an imabalance in the neurotransmitters (serotonin, noradrenalin and dopamine)

There is an excellent book “The natural way to beat depression” by Professor Basant Puri. It is a simple read and not too expensive (about £10 IIRC) which explains the theory behind EPA.

EPA is not some quack theoy and Prof Puri is one of this countries leading academics who is following up on from the earlier work of people like Prof Horrobin who led the way in using nutritional substances in the treatment of Schizophrenia and Depression.

As others have said and I am sure your GP also said it, taper off the AD over at least a couple of weeks if not a lot lot longer. The general recommendation is not to come off them abruptly and especially so if you are taking Venlafaxine or Paroxetine (these two have the worst records for withdrawal symptoms)

depends what you’re on.

coming off SSRI’s can be a total bitch – the effects of withdrawal can be very unpleasant.

(panic attacks, depression, agression, scary head trip flying through space sensations, etc.)

lower your dose slowly.

make time to get exercise and daylight.

example: assuming you’re on 40mg/day now: go for 40/40/30/40/40/30 for a week or so, to see how you go.

then try 40/30/40/30, see you how go.

then 30/30/40/30/30/40, see how you go.

that shouldn’t give you much trouble, and will get you to 30/day in about a month.

this will give you an idea if can lower your dose more quickly, and what to expect as you do so.

“The natural way to beat depression”

Is there any reason to use a naturally occurring drug over a man-made one, if they are going to do the same thing?

molgrips – Member
“The natural way to beat depression”
Is there any reason to use a naturally occurring drug over a man-made one, if they are going to do the same thing?

I see your point, but I didn’t write the damn book, just quote its title 😆

To answer your question though probably fewer significant side effects, lower long terms risks, fewer drug interactions and fewer contraindications.

IIRC the only contraindication with EPA is if you are also taking blood thinners as omega 3 fats thin the blood so it is still not for everyone.

The reason I highlighted it is that everyone seems to be familiar with St Johns wort but less so with EPA.

The OP could also look at one of Patrick Holfords books -perhaps “Optimum Nutrition for the Mind” I can’t remember what he recommends (probably Vitamin C, B and Zinc – helps with Methylation or some other such things that helps create the necessary neurotransmitters) but I have always regarded him as an “anti drugs Zealot”

Another approach is to take 5-HTP supplements which are readily available in health food places. 5-HTP (Hydroxy-Triptophan sp?) is the pre-cursor to Serotonin. There are also plenty of books on this … goes off to his library to find a couple. I would expect these should not be taken with ADs or any other drug that works on the Serotonin system for that matter.

If only Serotonin could cross the blood brain barrier it might be a lot simpler!

To answer your question though probably fewer significant side effects, lower long terms risks, fewer drug interactions and fewer contraindications.

How so? Is it because there are fewer that we know about? If a drug, plant material, medicine, chemical, whatever, is potent enough to cause an effect, then surely it is potent enough to cause a side effect too?
I thought that prescribed medicines were tested for interactions and contraindications. Will the health shop be able to supply equivalent data or do we accept them on their word?
Not doubting that St John’s Wort works, just questioning how robust is the data on long term risks, side effects, drug interactions and contraindications. If I was going to take any “natural” remedy I’d be inclined to take it on the assumption that it may work but accepting that it probably hasn’t undergone the extensive testing and trialling that prescribed medicines will have had? Deadly nightshade’s natural but I’m not going to assume that it’s necessarily harmless or better because it hasn’t been manufactured in a test tube.

I think there is a bit of a mix up here. St Johns wort acts as an SSRI antidepressant but the EPA approach is about nutrition and getting all the right stuff the brain needs to function properly

Apologies – I thought that the above quote related to SJW. Having read it properly, I can see that it doesn’t. My mistake.

The OP could also look at one of Patrick Holfords books

I’m not going to get into a debate. I’m just going to leave this here: Patrick Holford’s very own special category on Bad Science. Readers are encouraged to read around the subject and draw their own conclusions, etcetera.

I’ve been on anti depressents for years, was on citalopram 60mg but was no longer working, took 2 months of reductions till I was off. Others in my depression group sessions report the same as me if you got symptoms going on you will get approx the same coming off. Tried sertraline awaful I put on 20kgs in 3 months, a rare case I’m told. Not currently on anything but supposed to be going on the new citalopram (vamplaram?) but I’m going to try the herbal 5htp stuff first. St Johns wort didn’t work for me but I know it has for others.

TJ thanks for clarifying.

Tinners the points you make are extremely valid and users of so called herbal/natural approaches need to be aware that they have not necessarily undergone the rigourous trials and follow-up studies that prescribed medications are required to go through.

That said, St Johns Wort, EPA and HTP-5 have been studied by the scientific community, but from the relatively little I have read these studies have tended to focus on the efficiacy of these approaches rather than an unwelcome drug interactions etc.

Overall, I have no particualar axe to grind on this subject, and if anything my leaning is more towards the pro-drug camp. This may be why I stuggle with P Holford’s own position.

I read somewhere that St John’s Wort is prescribed quite readily by GPs over in Germany, so I guess it must satisfy their minimum requirements regarding safety?

I’m with all the folk who support licensed drugs over herbs. SJW has been studied but not in the same sorts of numbers of patients as licensed anti deps, and not using the same formulations across studies. I’m not saying it doesn’t work, I’m just saying it may be less predictable and less easy to manage as there are fewer data about dose regimens etc. Short sciencey bit about it herehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20708905

Something else to consider is whether winter is a good time to go drug-free – less sunlight, colder, generally more miserable days, the stress of Xmas (if it gets to you)… Winter can be a difficult time for a lot of reasons. Could a SAD lamp help? There are places online that rent them so you can try before you buy.

Final bit of my ha’penny worth: make sure folk around you know what you’re doing & ensure they will keep an eye out for you in case you go downhill. Depression can creep up on you & sometimes it’s only when someone else has the guts to say they think something might be wrong that it becomes apparent to yourself that you’re acutely unwell.

chickadee – Member
Something else to consider is whether winter is a good time to go drug-free – less sunlight, colder, generally more miserable days, the stress of Xmas (if it gets to you)… Winter can be a difficult time for a lot of reasons. Could a SAD lamp help? There are places online that rent them so you can try before you buy.

I must admit that thought also crossed my mind yesterday when I read this thread.

I certainly would not want to do it and I planned with my GP to come off the prozac in April so that I had the summer to give me a lift.

Another problem with SJW is that is inteacts with the bodies drug metabolism processes (Cytochrome P450’s) and can stop other prescribed drugs from working.

Aye it’s a crap time of year to be going drug free. I am
honestly starting to think that the herbal alternatives work with certain types of depression. Those who have PTSD or any severe anixiety seem to fare better on drug based tablets. I got alot of understanding from the books of Mary Anne Copeland, they are written quite tackily but the ideology is good. She talks about making a ‘wellness toolbox’ mental and physical things that help you to cope, and make time for them. It always seems quite obvious when you read it but when the black dog of depression is following you around the obvious can seem abit hazy.

catflees46 – Those books you refer to, is the author Mary Ellen Copeland rather than Ann(e)?

Drugs are just a sticking plaster and in some cases, i reckon they can often cause more harm than good.

I really think we have become too dependant on this sort of medication and it’s all too easy for a GP to diagnose anxiety/depression, then pack you off with a script – “NEXT”! It’s a cop out IMO.

What is needed is counselling/therapy/good listeners who’re caring and sincere, who know instinctively how to handle the situation. This is the stumbling block IMO.

Sometimes, the best thing is to just do nothing, to not have couselling, or drugs and to just get on with it.

Good luck adjusting to not having to take these drugs.

GJP it’s Mary Ellen Copeland, the system she has devised is called WRAP I did a course with my mental health nurse and other fellow depressives based on WRAP (welness recovery action plan) it’s all a but tacky in the way it’s written and indeed the offical website looks like a dodgy sales site rather than a medically and widely used recovery system. I may have notes/copies of key pages at my parents house, if I do and anyone wants a copy to see if it’s for them before buying or asking a Dr about courses please PM me and I will happily send you a photocopy.