Yes, I know the flats vs clipless debate has been done to death, but I still can’t decide 😳

I’ve always ridden clipless on the road (well ever since Shimano released the first SPD pedals anyway), but always flats off-road. Last weekend I did another of my occasional “tests” of riding clipless off-road and had the inevitable comedy fall. Riding across a fairly wide stream, front wheel either slips or a rock moves, can’t get foot out quick enough and end up on my side in a river, still attached to the bike. Managed to avoid drowning, but was cautious about trying stuff for the rest of the ride, which ruined some of the fun.

Of course, unclipping is something that becomes more natural with practice, but is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down when things suddenly go wrong?

Other than the dabbing issue I quite liked the “connected” feeling although trying to descend standing on two pegs felt very weird. I think I need to try a pedal with a bit of a platform, but am reluctant to splash any cash if I’m never going to get past the dabbing issue.

but is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down when things suddenly go wrong?

Yes.

But saying that, not with shimanos (not for me anyway). Never got on with them. Release is either too stiff and clonky, or if you slacken the tension off enough for it to be smooth, they are rattly and easy(ish) to pull out of. Even with brand new ones or slightly worn/broken in ones. (not multi release cleats either!)

releasing becomes automatic after a while, no different to using a flat, getting the bugger back in on steep choppy stuff however………

but is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down when things suddenly go wrong?

yes. I have ridden Time pedals offroad for what seems like ever. My kids ride on flats and in a way I wish I could get back to that, as definitely better for bike skills, but at aged 50, I reckon I’m past it 🙂

but is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down when things suddenly go wrong?

Yes, and I say this as a Shimano users. I don’t even think about it anymore. But it will obviously take time and I suspect a few comedy falls too.

Definitely yes..

You can stick out a foot when you need it (Marchburn last night proved that for me) and you get pretty good at getting back into the pedal straight away. When I fall off (far too often) I can’t remember doing it but I’m never attached to the bike at the point of impact.

Platform on the pedals – I’m not convinced they make much difference. That being said, I run XT trails. I don’t feel any difference on the pedal compared to the non-trail versions they replaced. My SPD shoes don’t have much rubber on the sole so I’m never going to get good grip on a pedal platform. The cage does seem to offer some rock protection though as it seems to get battered to hell and the mechanism survives OK.

usually 😳

Yes.

But saying that, not with shimanos

OK, so what pedals for quickest release ?

My kids ride on flats and in a way I wish I could get back to that, as definitely better for bike skills,

Why is that? If you can bail instantly with clipless surely they can still be used for learning skills. Or is it just to stop you cheating?

When I fall off (far too often) I can’t remember doing it but I’m never attached to the bike at the point of impact.

Releasing in a crash doesn’t really bother me. It seems to be a bit like ski bindings; as long as you are going at a decent speed when you crash they pop out just fine. It’s the low speed comedy falls where you get stuck to the bike.

Dab?

Amateur.

Commit to the crash i’m convinced i end up less injured staying attached until it all goes runny. Rather than pull all the muscles trying to save it.

I ride with Shimano SPD’s and unclip without thinking about it. For me I seem to unclip as fast as if I were on flats.

Been riding on SPD’s for perhaps 20+ years, so maybe that length of time has made it an unconscious action.

So for me the Clip/Flat debate is pointless.

The adjustment on my SPD’s is not slack, probably more towards the firm setting.

I’ve never had an issue emergency releasing from shimano pedals, but I switched to flats about 3 years ago and despite a couple of dalliances I’m happy with flats. I should probably sell my shoes but I know one day I’ll want to try it again

Why is that? If you can bail instantly with clipless surely they can still be used for learning skills. Or is it just to stop you cheating?

definitely the latter. Whilst I am fully used to riding clipped in, when I see the kids learning new stuff and not having the ‘benefit’ of being attached to the pedals, its easy to see how their technique will develop better.

I find ATACs best. Or at least i did until the latest generation. They seem to be a bit tighter/less progressive. But i’ve only done about 100km on these ones.

Of course, unclipping is something that becomes more natural with practice, but is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down when things suddenly go wrong?

Instinctively for me, no – as a long term flat pedal user who’s spent probably 50% of the last 2 years clipped in.

Generally I do end up unclipped, but that’s usually at the ‘oh sh*t’ point where i’m then crashing, whereas a quick dab would have saved it.

This is avoiding the fact that I I still ride like a chump on anything steep & technical when clipped in anyway so i’m going to give up on them now 🙂

Mallets and candies here not the fastest release but one of the more predictable. Swap cleats often as they are brass and designed to wear not the pedal interface. Generally dabbing is something I avoid but happy enough on those to be in and out or with the mallets ride em flat. Saying that I did a couple of dh races on candies and xc shoes for some reason and could flat ride them too so basically practice.

is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down

No I don’t think it is

If a crash unfolds like some of them do there’s time to unclip but for totally unexpected offs the unclipping movement is sometimes the last thing I want my feet to be doing. You get quicker definitely but it’s never like a dab

For me (YMMV) I only really struggle to unclip on OTB moments, sideways topples I almost always save, even really quick wet root issues.

It’s the OTB fear that has kept me on flats, which thinking about it coincided with my first MTB trip to Scotland.

releasing becomes automatic after a while, no different to using a flat, getting the bugger back in on steep choppy stuff however………

This ^
I have no problems dabbing instinctively but in the very conditions where you least want to be skating about on the pedals not clipped in, it can be tricky to get them back sometimes, or at least, it requires some concentration that I don’t want to spare. My total 26 years of MTBing are pretty evenly split between clips and flats, so I can ride both to a high standard but I tend to ride one for a number of years then swap for a number of years. The last 3 years have been on flats and I’m not currently feeling any need to change.

I use clipless on the road (shimano, spd and road cleats) and flats off road, did try sod off road but found that the issues wasn’t unclipping, but clipping back in after. So I’d unclip to save a fall but couldn’t clip back in in time for the next bit so I’d be all unbalanced and end up hopping down the trail, and end up crashing that way.

I’ve also notice that I even now twist my feet when taking a foot off flat pedals, mimicking the motion of using clips…

I ride with Shimano SPD’s and unclip without thinking about it. For me I seem to unclip as fast as if I were on flats.

Same here,but I have gone more for M647s over the last few years ,as there is a bigger target to hit while faffing about trying to clip back in.
I used them when CX racing as well,again more because of the bigger target thing after dismounts .

For me I seem to unclip as fast as if I were on flats.

the other nice bit about the CB’s is you clip forwards, backwards or straight down

With the multi-release cleats unclipping is not an issue.

As mentioned, once you’re out, and have dabbed and have a cleat now full of mud accurately clipping back in again, or trying to ride it out just balanced on the pedal is really rather hard…….

It’s something you will get used to in time.. I’ve noticed even when I take my feet off flat pedals I twist them…

In a similar situation to some above I’ve been riding clipped in since it was sensibly possible on an MTB (ie 1990 when I bought a set of M737s!). Been on Shimano, then Time when Shimano went a bit crappy (858s), now back to Shimano (mostly for cost reasons).

That’s 25+ years doing it, so I can’t comment on how quickly it becomes natural for a long-time flat pedal rider. I certainly unclip (and reclip) without thinking about it. It’s fast and has been fast enough to bail out of OTBs and land on my feet. That’s not that I don’t wish for the instantaneous on-off-on of flats sometimes, but overall I’m happiest when attached.

I use “trail” type pedals with a larger platform for most riding (Time Controls and now Shimano M530s – so good and cheap it’s hard to look at anything else) and also now more trail type shoes which will grip the pedal enough on the midfoot for those “really can’t get it back in right now” moments.

On thing that people often seem to struggle with is having a strongly preferred side for unclipping, which can lead to obvious issues! I’ve pushed by son (who’s been on clips since he was 6 I think) to practice unclipping both sides evenly.

once you’re out, and have dabbed and have a cleat now full of mud accurately clipping back in again, or trying to ride it out just balanced on the pedal is really rather hard..

Problem solved, lots of space for the mud to leave when re clipping.
One of the reasons why the Shimano’s went in the bin.

Though, being crank bros, the first time you go to unclip and the pedal body comes away from the axle, or the axle snaps, or the pedal explodes into a million pieces, certainly puts you off your pedal stroke, and makes dabbing (or clipping in) a bit tricky.

(Yes, i know they are fantastic now, and never fail, because they are amazing and totally gnarr. I’m still not getting any, as i’ve seen far too many of them fail)

Crank Bros, so good my mate had two pairs, one of which lived in his Camelbak for when the other set failed mid ride.

Crank Bros, so good my mate had two pairs, one of which lived in his Camelbak for when the other set failed mid ride.

Yep lost one end bolt from a very cheap set 8 years ago 🙂 Must all be cursed.

I’m a Shimano fan now. I was on Time ATACs for years but when they changed colour (to the grey/beige they are now) they seem to have got weaker. From a set lasting 3-4 years, I got some of the new ones and had 3 pedals break over the next few months.

Switched to XTs and can see no reason to switch back. Very reliable and my spare set in of 520s in the toolbox cost less than a set of Time cleats.

Actually, I think Times were slightly better at clearing mud and slushy snow – but not enough of a difference to make me want to switch back.

Must all be cursed.

I think the eventual return of just about every set we ever sold from one shop i worked at was probably what did it.

You’re going to mention the servicing and rebuild kits they require now aren’t you……. 😉

Not really, they work well for me, they fix the platform bit which is practically non existent on shimano and the clogging up. I pop a set of bearings through them every couple of years and just keep riding. Guess I’m just the lucky one.
Which ones were going back anyway? The current ones?

i love my mallets but dabbing is never as easy as flats. its ok if you see it coming but for the front end washouts, where you need sniper, reflexes unclipping a wee bit slower.

i live somewhere with loads of roots and in the depths of winter i use flats as clips is pretty much suicidal as teh bike is all over the shop. as soon as it dries a bit i`m back on clips.

Of course, unclipping is something that becomes more natural with practice, but is it ever as instinctive as just putting a foot down when things suddenly go wrong?

For me yes, absolutely. I usually find myself using a foot or standing on one or both of them with no memory of having unclipped. I don’t know if they just come out on their own in a crash or I unclip myself – but I never come off accidentally these days so I think I’m unclipping instinctively.

The only difference between that and flats (besides clipping back in) is that I think it takes slightly longer to release your foot. But we’re talking tiny fractions of a second.

The current ones?

No, this was 10 years ago. But shit sticks. Especially with some of the other crap they’ve produced.

But even with the current ones i’ve seen a handful let go/explode/disintegrate. So far i’ve seen one failed ATAC (plenty of completely worn out ones) and two or three XTRs (axle snapped/pedal body off).
The Times doesn’t really tell you much as virtually no one uses them here. I’m one of about half a dozen who does.
XT and XTR have about 30% of the market, another 30% with other shimano models. The rest is pretty much all CB.

No, this was 10 years ago. But shit sticks.

I shall take you current pedal advice under advisement then 🙂

I used spd’s for over 20 years off road but never really felt it was automatic but I’m crap and always will be! 😳
I gave flats a try a few years a ago and find because I know I can move my foot without thinking about it I actually put a foot down far less. I thought it would feel insecure but in reality it’s never been an issue

Shims no has multi release or single release cleats so worth a look

I think you have all the advice you need, but I will give mine anyway 🙂

I’ve stopped clipping in, and am back on flats, but it wasn’t the technical sections which influenced my decision – I became convinced that I was going to overbalance sooner or later while standing around with one foot clipped in. Several of my friends have had such falls. Initially it seems like a low speed (or stationary) overbalance and can appear humorous, unless you fall down a 3 foot incline, when the situation starts to lose its appeal.

Anyway – when clipped in I definitely find a huge difference in having a pedal with a cage – like the XT trails, compared to a more minimalist design. I’d advise buying a used pair in the classifieds – if you don’t like them you can resell at very little loss. Most of us also tend to know a mate who has a second pair you could borrow for a week instead of splashing out.

Otherwise, I set my clips very loose so that on a sideways tumble, I automatically unclip. I still seemed to be securely clipped in for the steep techy stuff, but could easily unclip. And even dab if needed.

I think you have all the advice you need, but I will give mine anyway

Actually, I’m more confused than ever now, but thanks for all the comments. 🙂