so hes just a professional troll

what a hero!
Yay! You’ve got it.

so hes just a professional troll

That’s a neat little summary! 🙂

Most of the article is gash, but he has a point about cyclists riding down the middle of wide roads. Unless there is a good reason to e.g. potholes or entering a junction, why do it?

“Some see the road network as a racetrack…”

You don’t have to watch every episode of Top Gear, which I probably have, the see the irony in that.

Unless there is a good reason to e.g. potholes or entering a junction, why do it?

I’d hazard a guess most cyclists don’t deliberately ride down the middle of the road to p1ss people off.

Cyclist sees a pothole or bus pulling over or wet manhole cover or junction ahead and moves out.

Motorist only sees cyclist move out (not the reason for it), and concludes he’s doing it for a wind up.

Thus theres a disagreement.

Most of the article is gash, but he has a point about cyclists riding down the middle of wide roads. Unless there is a good reason to e.g. potholes or entering a junction, why do it?

If you can’t figure out the answer to this one yourself, you really shouldn’t be allowed to drive.

5thElefant – Member

You’ve claimed for as long as I can remember that his attitude toward cyclists was ‘a joke’ and no reflection of his real views.

I don’t think that’s true (the context is rarely cyclists). You’ll need to search all my posts and quote me.
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I don’t think I have to – you’re contributions to this thread display your attitude quite nicely.

I’m quite happy to believe he finds cyclists annoying. Like most motorists.

You’re also happy that he lies about his encounters with cyclists, then encourages others to share his views by broadcasting his lies and publishing them in a Sunday paper?

his attitudes toward cyclists are ‘a joke’

(not actually quoting anyone, just a common statement about him)

Bernard Manning said the same thing about many of his ‘attitudes’ didn’t he? Still, whatever he really thought it drew a following from a certain section of society who chose to find some meaning that suited them. His fault? Just the way it is? Easy to write him off as an idiot? All ‘maybe’ but the end result is there and he hardly helped improve matters for those at the butt of the jokes.

I’d hazard a guess most cyclists don’t deliberately ride down the middle of the road to p1ss people off.

Indeed. The last thing any cyclist wants is an angry dickhead in a rangerover up his arse. There will always be a good reason when a cyclist puts themselves in conflict with other road users. it will usually be the least risky option.

As for does all the noise make a difference? Absolutely. I don’t think that all the people passing out death threats on social media will actively carry them out but open voicing of prejudice will certainly translate into more dangerous behaviour on the road by the more easily influenced followers.

On the other hand, if Clarkson told all his followers to respect cyclists, give them room and be patient then I guarantee that would translate into a visibly better experience for cyclists in this country. But he won’t.

I’m therefore neutral in the whole debate,

Yes. Yes he is.

This is awkward but I think I agree with him, maybe I read it wrong but he is saying it is 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other.

i.e. some car drivers are ****, so are some cyclists.

Just because you have a right, doesn’t mean you have to exercise that right.

Given this is meant to be a serious piece

Is it? He thinks (and a lot of morons agree with him) that he’s a comedian. I’ve never found him funny, but now he provokes violent thoughts.

some car drivers are ****, so are some cyclists.

There’s a massive difference though, isn’t there. On the roads?

So all those saying it’s entertainment and light hearted, and reasonable for him to publish his views that cyclists shouldn’t be on the road:
1) have you read all the tweets in reply to his suggesting he should have run the cyclist over?
2) have you never had a driver deliberately pass you closer than they need to or in any other way deliberately drive to put you in danger – if not, have you never heard of that happening to other people?
3) do you not think it at all likely that his public attitude is encouraging point 2?
4) do you think there’s a chance that points 2 and 3 will result in at least one additional cyclist being injured or killed by a car (see cases where cyclists have been killed due to drivers paying them too little respect – plenty of those about)? For the record I think it’s almost certain that is the case.

I read the article on Sunday in the paper.

Clarksons piece basically did the classic “some particlar cyclist did something wrong in my eyes, ergo all cyclists are mad/shouldn’t be on the road.”

Don’t think Vine really covered himself in glory either. His first line went somwhere along the lines of “Every day I strap on a hugely powerful light to my head so I can dazzle motorists”.

so hes just a professional troll

He knows that something as extreme/stupid/presented as comically as ‘murdering truck drivers’ is taken differently as more subtle comments that echo widely-held opinions about bikes on the road. He can then blame people for taking his comments out of context if anyone has a go. He’s not stupid. He also seems to have an ego that overrules any sense of responsibility his position comes with. It’s just playing to the crowd, we get media characters that appeal to society. Jordan and JC.. wonderful )

I quite like him, and I agree that lots of cyclists I see on the roads are inconsiderate dicks. Probably a similar percentage to those that drive cars funnily enough.

To many militants on either side…

I quite like him

That’s the thing isn’t it, it’s an entertaining show overall and they’re good at what they do.

Don’t think Vine really covered himself in glory either. His first line went somwhere along the lines of “Every day I strap on a hugely powerful light to my head so I can dazzle motorists”.

Bit of an exaggeration there. This is what he said, halfway through the article:

The £165 light on my helmet is so powerful it will temporarily dazzle any driver I direct it at — unfortunately necessary to ensure he doesn’t suddenly shoot out of a side street and push me into a bus

It is perfectly possible to keep the light pointed down and away from motorists’ eyes most of the time, so it is not indiscriminate. If you’ve ever ridden a roundabout at night and had a car almost T-bone you despite being lit up like a Christmas tree you would understand why he does it.

How many drivers have been killed by cyclists riding aggressively?

He’s good at inflaming drivers so that they drive in a way which endangers cyclists (more than they would otherwise)? Yes, I think you’re right, he is good at that.

I am at least now past the point where I’m surprised at people on a forum supposedly for cyclists supporting the motorists side on such issues.

If you’ve ever ridden a roundabout at night and had a car almost T-bone you despite being lit up like a Christmas tree you would understand why he does it.

I think we’ve done this to death in other threads as to why it might not be a good idea to temporarily blind someone in a 2 tonne vehicle.

Regardless of whether Clarkson is ‘joking’ or serious it’s clear that plenty of people are not intelligent enough to take the ‘joke’ with the requisite pinch of salt needed…therefore he should just stop with the anti-cycling stuff, either way.

I generally don’t care/listen/rise to the anti-cycling stuff in the media but Clarkson has a gigantic platform and it’s not like he would die or get sacked if he stops spouting it- he’d still make plenty of cash and get plenty of work I’m sure. So it’s incredibly poor form and childish and yes, pretty reckless, to keep peddling his ill-formed/ contrived (delete as appropriate) opinions.

There’s a lot of cause and effect in all of this.

I’ve cycle in places where road traffic just works fine and bad driving towards cyclists is rare. People just get along and road users are equals, just people (maybe my perceptions are not the reality but I certainly see a big difference compared to thwe UK).
So in the UK when cyclists get defensive, ott lights, shouty stressed guys with cameras, whatever, why is that happening? Doesn’t take a genius to figure out where it started. Bikes could never be the dominant or bullying party on the roads.

Getting back from where we are is the tricky bit. JC is in some ways just a harmless figurehead, in others a part of the difficulty in changing the status quo. Back to my Bernard Manning comment.

He is a highly educated, Yet Miss informed baffoon that not only cannot drive very well, but actually has very little knowledge of the industy he is in.

He is a journalist that says what he is payed to say to make as much money as he possibly can, and gives journalist such as my father (in the same industry) a bad name and reputation.

No, he’s a comedian.

I think we’ve done this to death in other threads as to why it might not be a good idea to temporarily blind someone in a 2 tonne vehicle.

Maybe. It’s not really a brilliant idea to allow a 2 tonne vehicle to smash into you because SMIDSY either though, is it?

I am at least now past the point where I’m surprised at people on a forum supposedly for cyclists supporting the motorists side on such issues.

Of course… most cyclists are motorists.

Clarkson is like an alternative Alf Garnet: always entertaining: talks a lot of shit: entertaining shit.

The idea that “the roads are for cars” is an attitude that needs challenging at all times though. My worry is that the more segregation we get to make cycling safer, the more this position becomes entrenched, and the more cyclists will be seen as “encroaching on to roads” instead of staying in their little segregated area.

Making a few routes safer for cycling may result in bikes being seen (even more) as invading aliens on the roads. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have these safe routes, just that we all have to be aware that they will make the fight to show that “the roads are not just for cars” even harder, and even more necessary.

5thelefent I think you’ll find he is a professional journalist.

Comedy is funny, what he does is bully and insult, people who find this funny are genraly people with a Low IQ and no morals, people who wouldnt stick up for some one beeing bullyed or who would sit back and watch it happen infront of them.

I’m not saying you are one of these people as I don;t know you but that’s my Genral findings with in his fan base.

I don’t see a great deal wrong with the points in the article tbh… he’s right, when cyclists use the road they should be courteous. The fight for safer cycling isn’t about making the roads biased towards cyclists, it should be about creating separate cycle networks from the roads.

5thelefent I think you’ll find he is a professional journalist.

journalist

noun
1.
a person who writes for newspapers or magazines or prepares news to be broadcast on radio or television.

He’s not a journalist. A columnist, light entertainer and comedian all fit. Journalist doesn’t.

The fight for safer cycling … should be about creating separate cycle networks from the roads.

See, this is exactly my worry…

kelvin – Member
The fight for safer cycling … should be about creating separate cycle networks from the roads.

See, this is exactly my worry…If the networks are designed properly, there’d be very little need to go on the roads.

but regardless I don’t share your fears, of what? cyclists being banned from roads.

What’s your point cycle networks shouldn’t be created? I’m confused?

The fight for safer cycling … should be about creating separate cycle networks from the roads

this is not the solution. it is such an unthinking statement – the idea could and should not be applied across the UK

creating separate cycle networks from the roads.

It won’t happen here. The money and political will isn’t there and fighting for it in some ways creates the sort of division that JC exploits.
“Cyclists demand £15 million for new bikeways when our hospitals are closing” etc
Not saying Sustrans etc is pointless at all (I’m a supporter) but as a solution it’s only a minor fix for some. Rights on the roads and respect is what’s needed. Horse riders get it and can ride 2-abreast all day.. Choose your battles / be practical etc.

Horse riders get it and can ride 2-abreast all day..

Yes, and… as soon as they see a car they go single file and pull over so you can pass. Then smiles and waves are exchanged.

Exactly the same as when I’m cycling.

His basic view seems to me that because he’s in a car he has a greater right to use the roads than cyclists.

He’s smarter than that, I believe it is more likely that his basic view is writing about controversial topics in a provocative manner encourages reader interaction driving up his (perceived) value within the on-line and print media.

Clarkson isn’t a real person, OK he’s a real person, but his TV and print persona is just a caricature of a Middle Aged, upper-band income, home counties dwelling, Tory type. That’s fine, I sort of think of him a bit like Alan Partridge a compilation of exaggerated character flaws designed to entertain…

If there are people Stupid enough (and I know a couple) to agree with and parrot the cobblers he espouses then I’m sure they will eventually be rounded up and shot for stupidity, or simply ignored into joining UKIP by the rest of society like all the other loons.

As for arguing with “JC” forget it, you might as well engage Top Cat in a debate on the root causes of low level street crime.

Jeremy Clarkson is a symptom of our cultural Lob-on for the motor car, its not really worth examining him or his commentary too closely, he does make the odd insightful or even amusing point now and then (although these seem to be fewer and fewer in recent years). But perhaps its worth looking at the issues in our society which he reflects, Namely Dickheadishness and entitlement on the roads (from members of all user groups)…

There are cocks in cars, and there are cocks on bicycles…
This is not actually news to anyone.

let me pick some bits out for you:

Naturally there were a lot of replies from car drivers saying that I should have run him down. But these were drowned out by a cacophony of abuse from people saying that I was somehow to blame

…so the ones complaining at him are far more of a problem than the ones suggesting he should run cyclists down.

taking the road network away from the very people for whom it was designed is silly.

…do I need to explain?

Vine says that all he wants when he is on his bicycle is to be safe. But that is impossible (just as it is impossible for other road users to be safe).

…which gets one of these from me:

behave like the horse rider

…OK, in the same spirit of those who say cyclists will only get stuff to help when they behave (a sentiment I’m sure Jezza agrees with), I’ll behave like a horse rider when car drivers treat me like one.

BTW I should credit Carlton Reid for making that article available (it’s his dropbox, and his comments at the top).

Horse riders getting respect…

@JeremyClarkson should pay road tax along with horse riders

— skip (@paulskip999) January 15, 2014

Horse riders on a main road make my blood boil – if u paid rd tax then I might let u off fr thinking u own the rd! pic.twitter.com/r1YivB2L9R

— msabz (@mikesabz) January 12, 2014

Yes, and… as soon as they see a car they go single file and pull over so you can pass. Then smiles and waves are exchanged.
Exactly the same as when I’m cycling.
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How much room do car drivers give horses when they overtake?

Horse riders get it and can ride 2-abreast all day.

However, it has been a long time since horse riding has been a major form of commuting transport. If people commuted by horse I think things may kick-off a bit more. It’s really commuting in cities where there the problem lies between cyclists and motorists IMO. One thing I’d like to see all agree on is better quality roads, and better road designs. Potholes are dangerous for everyone, and the type of road narrowings you see somewhere like Cowley Rd in Oxford are also and p*ss people off.