Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)
  • Citroen Berlingo 2010 – Turbo failure – advice
  • cutsngrazes
    Free Member

    HI –
    I have owned and loved my Citroen Berlingo 1.6 HDi 2010 van since new and it has been my trusty van getting me to work.
    I have done 66k in it and serviced it when the spanner light has come up on the dash.
    Two weeks ago – the anti pollution warning light came up on it, and so I stopped and called the RAC. They came out, he said it was the Turbo that had failed and I needed to take it to a garage and get it towed home. He asked if it was still under Warranty, which I said yes until August 2013.
    I towed it to the local Citroen dealer in Dumfries late at night, and called in the next day to see them about it.
    They said they would deal with it, and call me.
    I waited. No call 24hrs later
    I called them, and they asked for the full service history, which the next day I provided for them and they said they would call me.
    I waited. No call 24hs later; I called them. They said that they would have to send the service docs away to Citroen to verify, and they would call me back. I waited….this time rather tedious!!!
    I called the next day only to discover that the person incharge of warranty for Citroen was not back in their office until Monday – a week after i had put the car into them.
    On the Monday, I called…guess what – they said they would call me back – This time they did a few hours later to tell me that Citroen were not covering the repair on my van under warranty because of the vans periods of service, and that any further matters would have to be directed to Citroen customer services. Looking at the service history, I was 2k out of the recommended mileage for service, but when the spanner light had lit up – I booked it in, every time!
    Livid!!
    I called Citroen and they gave me a Case Number and said that they would write to me with and explanation as to why my van is not covered… I am in the dark here
    Where do I stand?
    To add a bit more juice to this story; I had had the van in to this Citroen dealer for an oil leak, which was covered under warranty in Nov 2012, and I think that this may have something to do with the Turbo being starved of Oil, and might have something to do with the damage caused to the turbo.
    Any advice, legal or experience would be really appreciated

    legend
    Free Member

    Are the service intervals a set time/mileage or when the spanner appears?

    TroutWrestler
    Free Member

    Will be mileage or time, whichever happens first.

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    plumslikerocks
    Free Member

    the web is full of stories of this engine in various applications suffering turbo failure. The lubrication seems to very marginal and is seriously affected by neglecting servicing intervals and not following proper oil change procedures….hence Citroen picking up on your extended intervals.

    An oil leak will not have helped if it let the oil level or pressure drop excessively, but don’t these have an electronic oil level display?

    I fear you might have an uphill battle to get this paid for. Just do some research on t’web about similar cases. Oh, and whoever does end up fixing it, make sure they use the proper parts which includes the sump oil pickup strainer that gets blocked by sludge and causes the turbo to fail.

    cutsngrazes
    Free Member

    Service ints are 12.5k and I did them at 14k. But booked her in as soon as I saw the spanner???
    Thanks Plums – I have read some other posts on here moaning about this, this seems a common fault, and if there is anyone with sim experience, would like their advice.
    I think the oil leak might hold some hope for me.
    Yes the Oil dial/reading is electronic and comes up when you start the engine

    DaveVanderspek
    Free Member

    I always do an “in-between service” oil & filter change as i think 12 0r 15k miles is an awful long time for engine oil to be in there.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    These have. Milage Countdown to service that appears when you turn on the engine.

    The spanner doesnt mean get it serviced , it means you have exceeded the interval and is constantly lit as a reminder so

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    I used to work for Citroen UK.

    This isn’t meant to sound harsh, but this IS how Citroen UK warranty will look at it.

    It should have been serviced every 12.5k or 2 years. You’ve serviced it late, the failure of the turbo can easily be attributed to poor oil quality due to late servicing. Therefore it’s not a manufacturing defect so not warranty.

    FYI the engine will most probably be scrap too, the oil way’s will be clogged with burnt/old oil/sludge. This is normally the cause of the turbo failure – poor oil flow.

    There is a procedure to repeatedly flush the engine to try to clear the sludge. It’s a circa 10 hour job on top of the turbo replacement. If you replace the turbo without having this done, at very best you have a 50% chance of the turbo lasting more than 3k miles.

    Again sorry if this sounds blunt just trying to give you the ugly truth.

    Mike

    Thrustyjust
    Free Member

    If the oil is considered to be sludged 1500 miles after it should have been changed, then the oil must be considered a poor quality oil. There is no reason on earth that oil will degrade to that level so quickly. There is an inherent design fault with the psa engine and as said before is a poor design. Modern synthetic oils ‘can’ last many more than 12,500 miles between servicing. As to fighting Citroen, then I think you may need legal backing to persue this in a manner that you could put across the issues related to this engine in its many guises. I dismantled my wifes mini Cooper S engine to change the rocker cover gasket the other day. Now at 85k miles, used on short journeys of 5 miles each way to work and there was no signs of sludging , black gunk or anything. In fact that other than a slight marking on the cam rollers was fine. Yes its a petrol, but its run on synthetic oil and changed every 20 k miles by mini.

    cutsngrazes
    Free Member

    hmmm, Thanks Michael – thats awful news!

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    And isnt a turbo.

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    There’s no inherent problem with the engine as such, its a very ligjt weight high performing diesel, that give gives good power and fuel economy. BUT 1. 12.5k service intervals is too long (in my experience) 2. Yes it needs a high grade fully synthetic oil.

    Check your service receipts, your dealer should have used a fully synthetic oil that meets the PSA standards (which are quite strict, see your service book) such as the reccomended ‘Total 9000’ if they haven’t you may have a claim against them. But it will probably require a legal fight.

    Clong
    Free Member

    Yes its a petrol, but its run on synthetic oil and changed every 20 k miles by mini.

    Diesels are very hard on engine oil, petrol engines by and large fair far better than diesels in this respect. Combustion gases from diesels lower the PH of the engine oil considerably, synthetic or not. As has been said, 12.5k is too long for service intervals, but that’s of little comfort to the OP.

    I convinced that the long service intervals were introduced due to the pressures of fleet owners trying to reduce costs.

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    I convinced that the long service intervals were introduced due to the pressures of fleet owners trying to reduce costs.

    ^^ I can assure you this is fact.

    hora
    Free Member

    Paging Rob Paging Rob. Hmmm should I get the 2.0HDI Mikebowden?

    chrisdiesel
    Free Member

    As above have said Cuk are very strict on service intervals. But I’ve never replaced a dv6 for this fault but a new genuine turbo/pipes and the oil pump filter/gauze is very important and as Micheal said a huge amount of cleaning/flushing and oil pressure tests to confirm the repair.
    I’ve seen new turbos die in 500 miles if this isn’t done.
    The engine is one of the bests on the market but most done get an oil level check between services that IMO cause the already small amount of oil 3.5L to become dirty and block the oil pump filter ( not the oil filter ) and the turbo dies soon after.
    Best of luck anyway

    br
    Free Member

    I convinced that the long service intervals were introduced due to the pressures of fleet owners trying to reduce costs.

    Going back in time. My Dad worked for Renault when they first introduced 12k service intervals in the 70’s, after a few years they went back to 6k and a period interval (1 yr max).

    This was because folk didn’t pay attention to the interval and focused on the mileage…

    I never pay attention to long service levels, my petrol cars are done either at 12k or 1 yr and my wife’s TD at 10k (she’s done 110k in 7 yrs).

    IMO all vehicles should be preventatively maintained.

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    Hmmm should I get the 2.0HDI Mikebowden?

    Hora, the 1.6 is a great engine it really is, I’ve seen it give over 50MPG dragging a C5 estate around and close to 70mpg in smaller cars. Just change the oil and filter every 6k and use good (read expensive) fully synthetic oil.

    chrisdiesel

    Chris do you work in the network???

    boblo
    Free Member

    Cue funny (Peugeot/Citroen) handshake….

    hora
    Free Member

    Every 6k is prohibitive though-having to remember etc etc. Better to get a more basic diesel lump as a trade off if a mistake can lead to completely wiping out any mpg savings.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    When i took a garage to court, I had to pay for all repairs myself and get an independent engineer to inspect the damage whilst the car was dismantled. The report he wrote i submitted along with the “N1” Court Summons document. This assumes its all less than 5k gbp so you can use the Small Claims Court.

    There is a risk the indpendent report *could* determine that a lack of servicing on time was the reason for the failure. How likely that is, i don’t know, but thats the sort of evidence you need to take a garage to court.

    In my case, they paid up 1 week before the court hearing.

    These engines don’t sound that great to me. In fact, i’d avoid them at all costs 2nd hand.

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    Every 6k is prohibitive though-having to remember etc etc. Better to get a more basic diesel lump as a trade off if a mistake can lead to completely wiping out any mpg savings

    How many miles a year do you do? I don’t see a £50 oil change every 6 months as prohibative?

    Also check other manufactrers oil change schedules, there are a lots that are lower than 12.5k on diesel engines or have a far larger oil capacity to cope.

    hora
    Free Member

    How many miles a year do you do?

    Citroen C1 1.0 petrol- 20k in one year 😯 – 4 oil changes in a year though?

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    Hora, it depends if you are going to keep it beyond the warranty. If not service as per schedule BUT don’t be late.

    If you’re going to keep it longer than the warranty change to oil more frequently. Maybe 6k is excessive, it’s just what I’ve always done on my own cars since being an apprentice.

    hora
    Free Member

    Is there anyway I can tune my 1.0 petrol? Its actually amazing except for its little flat spots and boy its rev-tastic.

    Clong
    Free Member

    Is there anyway I can tune my 1.0 petrol? Its actually amazing except for its little flat spots and boy its rev-tastic.

    Assuming its a NA engine, not cheaply. You might get about 5-10bhp out of it reasonably easily, but you wouldn’t notice it. If there’s tubby tucked away in there, you can get more, but i doubt your car has one.

    hora
    Free Member

    Theres a very large space in the engine compartment next to the engine- you could easily get a small turbo unit in there with alot of space to spare. The issue is its a lease car so any mods would have to be ‘cheap’ and easily reversible. 10hp would be fine. It doesn’t need that much more as its only 800kg?

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    Hora, it’s not something I’ve looked in to. It might be worth looking at the Toyota forums as it is their engine.

    As siad though it’s a NA engine and you’re not going to get much out of it without significant expense.

    br
    Free Member

    Citroen C1 1.0 petrol- 20k in one year – 4 oil changes in a year though?

    So what, all of £200 (based on paying someone) a year and you’ll extend the life of your car.

    If you can get a local (mobile) mechanic and he visits every 6 months you’ll build a good relationship, and if/when you have a problem he’ll ‘prioritise’ you. This is what we do.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Jeeze. Replace the oil every 6k miles!!

    I went from 10k service intervals to 15k, as I was doing lots of motorway miles and the servicing cost was getting stupid. This is in a Seat 1.9 PD TDi. It’s only sitting at 1750rpm or so at 70mph and most of my journies were sat on the A1 at a steady speed, so I figured I’d give it a go.
    That was getting on for 70-80k miles ago (can’t remember exactly) and (erm, touch wood!!?) all has been fine since. It’ll tick over 210k miles by the end of the week. (Kiss of death alert!!)

    hora – should be a fairly easy calculation to work out if the extra mpg fuel saving is wiped out by the cost of oil & filter more frequently.

    OP – hope you get some joy out of Citroen, but I suspect the service interval thing might mean they are reluctant to sort it.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Pretty sure that’s the same engine as in the BMW Minis, it’s a joint BMW / Citroen / Peugeot development.

    hora
    Free Member

    hora – should be a fairly easy calculation to work out if the extra mpg fuel saving is wiped out by the cost of oil & filter more frequently.

    Its not that though. Its the potential fragility of the engine. You’d have to schedule a change on time frequently into your diary. Then what if the engine (for god knows) whatever reason decides it didn’t like the last change but you couldn’t figure out why post-mortem?

    Then theres the final nail- unless you buy it brand new. How do you know the damage (wear) isn’t already started?

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    ^ Sounds simple then. Don’t get one! 🙂

    I wouldn’t. As you say – unless you buy it brand new, how can you be sure that it’s been looked after…?
    I’d want something a bit more ‘fit & forget’…..

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    footflaps – Member

    Pretty sure that’s the same engine as in the BMW Minis, it’s a joint BMW / Citroen / Peugeot development.

    The 1.6 diesel is a PSA engine which BMW use. The 1.6 Petrol engine is a BMW engine that PSA use.

    chrisdiesel
    Free Member

    Above is correct and yes I work in the network.

    hora
    Free Member

    Pity as the size etc is spot on. Mucho better than the fullgrown slushbuses that are large mpv’s.

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    Hi Chris

    I hope ia all goes well with your dealer. I’m personally glad I didn’t make to move to Coventry, I had 10 good years @ Slough.

    chrisdiesel
    Free Member

    Good old days!!! I did all my consultant tech training there.
    Huge changes and cuts for obvious reasons now.
    If you got out with a good pay out it was a smart move.

    michaelbowden
    Full Member

    Yeah I got out with some money and found a new job pretty quickly, so it worked out OK thanks

    Are you the CT @ Manchester South? I was in the old Tech Support before it moved to Cov 5 odd years ago.

    hora
    Free Member

    Are you the CT @ Manchester South?

    My car will be in there soon

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)

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