- This topic has 28 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 11 years ago by anagallis_arvensis.
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Choker chain or not
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highclimberFree Member
After a polite discussion with a fellow dog owner about how choker chains are a bad idea (they were using one and I mentioned in passing), my friend who was with me at the time said that it depended on how you use them.
I am firmly against them and don’t think that they should ever be used as a training tool over positive training methods and don’t believe it depends on how you use them but my friend was adamant. In the end after we’d left the couple using one we agreed to disagree as it were.So I guess my question is two-fold
Who uses/used one to train their dog?
and for those of you against it,
Would you politely inform other people there are better ways of training your dog?This is purely from a training point of view i.e. for training to heel etc
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberA choke chain is a sign of someones inability to train a dog. Positive reinforcement is the only way to train a dog. I blame that **** cesar millan for endless stupid pricks trying to “be the pack leader”. Its bollocks and I c am confident my dog is better behaved than most.
donsimonFree MemberWho uses/used one to train their dog? No, used a harness.
and for those of you against it,
Would you politely inform other people there are better ways of training your dog? In this country that’d be a no. You’re more than likely to get a gob full of abuse. non of my business anyway unlass the dog in is pain or clearly uncomfortable.Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...deadlydarcyFree MemberDoes Cesar use a choke chain? Genuine question. Didn’t think that was one of his things. When you cut back all the bullshit, he’s into positive reinforcement as much as anyone else.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberWhen you cut it all back millan thinks you need to dominate a dog and many respected dog trainers think he has put back the use of positive reinforcement by decades. His ideas are very dangerous in the wrong hands and his one book i read was shit and contained no useful information on training dogs.
deadlydarcyFree MemberDoes he use choke chains?
He’s all about body language, using your tone of voice, etc etc. I didn’t catch anything about dominating the dog. Other than the dog needing to understand you’re the boss. But I wouldn’t call that “dominating” (to the extent that I’m inferring from your tone anyway).
deadlydarcyFree MemberAh right, fair enough, I read your first link, but like all your YouTube links, I don’t click.
Someone got one of his books, and it didn’t mention any of that stuff. Didn’t realise there was that side to him. I’ll go and burn it now. 😀
TheBrickFree MemberA halter is better, that is why it is used on horses and cattle. A harness is to allow the animal to pull. A choke chains should only be used to make chain wallets when you’re 15.
jonahtontoFree Memberi’ve seen a video of that millan prick kicking the shit out of a dog and also running a dog on a treadmill till it couldn’t stand so that it would be docile in front of the camera. give me ten mins with him please, pretty please.
that said i have always used rope style slip/choke leads but thats because my dogs dont generally wear a collar. i wouldn’t use one to train a dog to walk to heel. and since my dogs dont really need a lead, they never pull hard enough to choke on them
KarinofnineFull MemberI’m so glad to hear those comments about Cesar Millan, having had his training methods held up as something I should emulate. I would like to see ALL his dogs, and ALL his methods, and ALL his failures, not just the “perfect tv dogs”. I’m not sold.
But, to your original point. When I took over Missy she had a choke chain. She had bald patches on her neck and still pulled on the lead. The choke chain was **** all use no apologies for language. I used a greyhound collar, taught her that I loved her, gave her routine, boundaries, regular food, a safe home. That stopped the pulling to a large extent. She did continue pulling but only ever me. Dog walkers and friends would always triumphantly announce; “Oh she doesn’t pull me”. But she isn’t a good example, she had a bad start to life and had issues.
To your question. I hate choke chains. They exist only to reinforce the fact that chavs have no idea about how to share their lives with a dog.
donsimonFree MemberMine would pull like buggery on the lead but walk 1m behind me when off. Go figure.
saladdodgerFree MemberI have used a choke chain on my old Retrevier dunno why realy cos she was never on a lead 🙄
imho they are better for training than a harness why fit a harness to an unruly dog so it can pull harder with a choke chain hopefully the discomfort would stop it pulling
But FFS go to puppy training classes as soon as possible train the dog from day 1 and never stop. the “puppy classes” are not really for the dog but for the owner, we have in the last 16 years had 3 retrievers and we still have a 6year old and a 7 month old ( neither of which really need to be on a lead ) every time we go to puppy classes to get useful tips and training for ourselves
KarinofnineFull MemberDon Simon. Same here, Missy pulled (me) when (she was on) the lead, but off lead she walked docilely behind or next to me.
andybachFree Membergenerally i dont think its dogs that need training its people – its easy to teach a dog to walk to heal – it just takes patience – when i first started i always used to use a choke chain simply because it was faster than a dog clip to put on and off – if the dog is trained to walk to heel you dont need the “choke” chain, just something / anything to attach you to the dog.
Laterally i just used a loop of baler twine – but my last spaniel was bomb proof 🙂 except with hares.
I hate seeing people dragging or being dragged around my dogs just becasue they cant be bothered or dont know how to train them.
But def go to puppy classes and spend twnety minutes every day just reinforcing the basics – and you can achieve a lot more with love than fear. Shouting and hitting a dog is basically a sign that you or someone else has failed or gone to fast – just do the basics again and again and again.
When you get the results you want without raising your voice or just using your eyes then you know youve cracked it! (bit like kids really!)
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saladdodgerFree MemberWhen you get the results you want without raising your voice or just using your eyes then you know youve cracked it! (bit like kids really!)
Bang on I could not put it better myself
BagstardFree MemberI used a ‘check chain’ when my mastiff x was young and at training class, but haven’t used it in years. She is a well behaved dog, with no aggression and shows deference to my 20 month old son, so for me I have to say it worked. My dog trusts me and knows the rules, would I do it again? Probably. That said, she was quite stubborn and has a neck like Mike Tyson. A powerful dog with an ineffectual owner is a dangerous combination.
traildogFree MemberThey just don’t work for so many reasons.
Check out a Halti instead.soobaliasFree Memberthey work fine if you know what you are doing
head collar is more effective, but also more of an issue to fit so some people/dogs find it less convenient.its a check chain, not a choke chain. If you are not going to use it how it was designed then its as dangerous as a slip lead.
If someone asked me i would explain, i wouldnt presume to approach random strangers and tell them how to keep their dog* anymore than i would their child**
* at least the dog is out, getting some fresh air and exercise.
** so long as there is no obvious abuse going on.hexhamstuFree MemberIf your dog pulls on the lead just use one of these great training aids available at amazon:
MrsToastFree MemberI take Benny Lava (Tibetan terrier, possibly crossed with spaniel) to dog training, and it’s amazing how different the trainers are there. We’ve had a couple of trainers that are all about getting your dog looking posh for showing, and both of them suggested we should get a half check collar for Benny. The other trainer was more about getting your dog trusting you and enjoying being with you in order to create obedience – he was my favourite trainer, and the one that Benny seemed to do best with.
I’m really not keen on getting a half check collar for Benny, I’d rather he learned to walk on the lead because he’s been trained to, rather than because he’s garrotting himself. He’s definitely getting better, sometimes we can go entire walks and he only tries to pull my arm out of its socket once (normally due to cat incitement). Sometimes he’s a furry cannon of overly assertive walkiness though.
If anyone sees a hobbity woman being pulled around Glentress/Innerleithen by Hairy Maclary next week, do say hello! 😀
TuckerUKFree MemberWhen you get the results you want without raising your voice or just using your eyes then you know youve cracked it! (bit like kids/partners/employees/policemen/judges/members of the opposite (or same if that’s your thing) sex really!)
FTFY
MilkieFree MemberOne of our training classes demands you have a metal slip collar. I don’t know why, as not a single dog pulls as they are of a very high standard. I think it’s mainly for looks.
People buying slip collars/choker chains because their dog pulls is not right. They can damage the dog through misuse by the owner. But then a dog that pulls is not right either, they can be trained out of it, given the right trainer/owner and a hell of a lot of patience!
user-removedFree MemberThe technique used by the trainers on that programme, Dog Borstal worked for me and our rescue lurcher X. He pulled like a husky and also did a good line in, well, lurching towards things and nearly ripping my arm off.
It basically involves telling the dog to heel and coiling a loop of the lead in your hand. As soon as the dog stops walking at heel, you drop the loop, turn 180 degrees and walk the other way, sharpish. At this point, you reinforce the ‘Heel’ command. The dog gets a bit of a jerk (normal collar). It really does work, but needs a week of walking nowhere and a great deal of patience. I reckon the dog just gets bored of not being able to go where he wants, but it does work.
I’ve used the same technique with visiting dogs (we look after dogs whilst their owners are on holiday) and have had dogs walking to heel within three or four days.
Kasper the well behaved dog, yesterday;
Loads more at the Hairy Dog Photography blog [/stealth marketing mode off]
PemboFree MemberMine would pull like buggery on the lead but walk 1m behind me when off. Go figure.
Herding breed don Simon? I go out with my greyhound and my mate with his boxer. The greyhound is out in front we walk in the middle and the boxer walks at the back.
highclimberFree Memberthey work fine if you know what you are doing
Temporarily strangling your dog to ‘teach’ it not to pull?
they can cause untold damage to their trachea even if you know what you’re doing.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberThey might well work fine but why use one when walking well on the lead is piss easy to train properly?
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