Class

The old ones are the old ones. Though in this case it’s the 9th bloke whinging about the 8th and 7th bloke saving more than him between them.

And Connect2 sums it up very succintly. In fact only the top 30% or so contribute to the state, everyone else is a net recipient and based on the trends in the article below the net contributors are getting less, not sustainable long term. No wonder those EARNING the higher incomes feel ever more pissed off with the prejudice aimed at them from there very people they are helping to support.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2215070/Are-contributor-burden-nations-finances–Squeezed-middle-increasingly-dependent-state.html

But there are solutions:

Like the Americans make people pay the difference to what they pay overseas and what they would pay in the US if they want to keep their citizenship.

Create a wealth tax like France’s ISF which applies to all assets.

Remove the discrimination between types of investments. Money under your control is your money and taxable however it’s dressed up. “Trusts” are mainly used by the untrustworthy.

Make tax evasion at least as serious a crime as shop lifting. With a simple principal. The least you risk if you hide money from the tax man is the tax man taking all of it.

A property super tax. Property is one form of asset that can’t be hidden or moved. The tax would be a progressive tax payable from the third property owned (fourth for a couple) and on any property not owned by a UK tax payer. Property owned abroad would be included for individuals. Tax on property held by companies/charities/associations rather than individuals would be paid by shareholders/members. Agricultural land tax would also be payable by companies/farmers owning more than 150 hectars.

Edukator

all good points, hit the super rich not keep hammeringly the moderately well off who earn their income.

I want schools to be open 330 days a year. Thus allowing hard pressed workers the ability to work and not pay out childcare cots etc.

Teachers have it too easy.

The super rich elite must love the sentiment from most on this thread – the middle fear the poor and think they’re scrounged, whilst the poor envy the middle and resent them having money. Meanwhile the elite continue to get richer without ever giving their fair share.

our house hold income is under 17K and we need the money from the government to survive I think the current system is totally stupid. It should be a household threshold not an individual limit. They should lower it to 30k for a house hold

I think a more relevant example of the inequality of the CB system would be myself and a lady I used to work with.

At the time the caps came in, she earned 30k, and her husband earned 25k. I earned roughly the same, but as a sole earner.

We both had similar mortgages, live in a similar areas, had two kids of the same age in school. In fact, to all intents and purposes, the same circumstances.

I had to take a £1200 pay cut.

Anyone here fancy a £1200 pay cut? No, didn’t think so.

I never moan about not getting it, because I agree, when you have incomes in this range, you don’t really need it. But it should be equally applied on family income, not the sole highest income. I believe the reason it isn’t done like this, is that the costs of recovery and assessing the entitlement on joint incomes would exceed the amount saved by not paying it, so that’s why it’s not done.

Not knowing the whole circumstances, but initially, you would’ve had to pay mroe tax and them more council tax, so the tax/ni/pen almost levels out. If both parents in the opposing house were working, they would’ve needed additional childcare (breakfast/afterschool club) whereas you (I’m assuming you’re not raising the kids alone) do not. £1700 worth of CB will barely make a dent in that cost.

There’s a sound reason why these rules exist, but admittedly at the £90k value, it does become a little difficult to justify.

We can only afford to have one child. If I dropped salary drastically and played the numbers I could have a second. Quid’s in!

Can you show me your working out on that?

the poor envy the middle and resent them having money

Is that what you’re getting from this?

I’m not seeing it.. I guess there are some bitter people in all walks of life but I’m happy as a pig in shit with the simple life.. part of being poor your whole life is you learn to see the futility of wasting your life chasing money..
You learn that it’s really really not all about that..

I pity the grasping middle, and to be honest I’m probably a bit disgusted… Envious though?

pull the other one mate 😆

I love the way we seem to have forgotten the value of a progressive taxation system… Thanks to wonderful spin and propaganda we have the chattering classes bemoaning ‘benefit scroungers’, lower earners despising the ‘squeezed middle’ and the super rich laughing all the way to the bank. Divide and rule, divide & rule.

The level of taxation on a gross salary of £50k means that it doesn’t represent as big an increase of a £30k gross salary as is often imagined. Also a family earning £50k jointly pays far less tax than a family with a single £50k salary. That doesn’t seem fair to me, before we talk about benefits of any type.

Out of interest yunki, if you don’t mind – what does your simple life consist of?

Genuinely curious, as sometimes I’d love to throw away the constraints of 50+ hr weeks away from home, chasing decent earnings.

poah said:

our house hold income is under 17K and we need the money from the government to survive I think the current system is totally stupid. It should be a household threshold not an individual limit. They should lower it to 30k for a house hold

The only way I could see you been able to live on £17k is if there is only one of you (in an expensive area) or two folk in a cheap area and/or you’ve no rent/mortgage.

And as that is less than minimum wage for two people, does that mean you don’t work a full week each?

The thresholds are not very well thought out but your scraping the barrel of first world problems to moan about it.

Paying more money into a pension is a good way of bringing back under £50k if you can. Otherwise with two kids you would have an effective tax rate of 58% (40% income tax, plus 18p for every pound earned lost in child benefit) on any earnings between 50 and 60k.
Its an ill conceived policy, bringing up kids costs money and the child benefit is a good way of giving a help to ALL parents.
I would happily see introduced (and pay) and higher rate of income tax and dedicate that “extra” to schools and the NHS.
There are clearly some bitter folk on here who think that those earning lots are selfish money grabbing eejits. Those on £30-60k make up a huge part of the income tax collection and I think that’s fair, but if I was on 50-60k with two kids then I would feel I was paying too much into the system and getting too little back. Happily I am not affected by this policy.

Is that because you’re envious, or do you think there is some advantage to you if somebody else doesn’t get something?

Maybe higher rate taxpayers should get to jump the queue for an operation, so that they get something back for all that tax they pay. I’m sure all those benefit scroungers and pensioners can wait a bit longer.

aracer…they do don’t they? Its called medical insurance.

aracer…they do don’t they? Its called medical insurance.

Have you actually looked at the cost of medical insurance – that actually works?

Pretty hard to afford it on £50k if you’ve a family and the like – only time I had it was when the company I worked for offered it (and just paid the BIK).

br, I agree and wasn’t trolling Aracer. An “OK” policy is £500 a year and you will get taxed on that at 40% as BIK. It’s good for surgery that’s moderately urgent and non-elective and it also gives follow up care that would be unaffordable on the NHS.
As posted above, I am a big believer in NHS at a “good” level for all, but there will always be people who want to pay more of the money they have earned to get an “even better” service. I don’t begrudge them.
Same with education…you pay for private? Great! That means you pay for state education AND don’t take a place in it. Both my kids go to a local state school and are getting good grades. Good education should be available to all, but the key is EVEN better state schools, not hammering private schools.

Where do people get this super rich bollocks from? Stop reading Socialist Who ker and in the next life LISTEN and revise at school instead of slacking/expecting life to be given to you.

b r – Member

The only way I could see you been able to live on £17k is if there is only one of you (in an expensive area) or two folk in a cheap area and/or you’ve no rent/mortgage.

And as that is less than minimum wage for two people, does that mean you don’t work a full week each?

we don’t work full time and we get money from child tax credits, working tax credits which help. we also bought our house 12 years ago when we didn’t have children and we were both working full time and I actually got a decent wage. things have sadly changed for the worse with my employment 🙁

Hora, thats fine, but many folk don’t have the combination of luck, opportunity and circumstances to make a really good life.
If you are lucky to have a talent and a good job and make a good living then its fair that you should pay a fair level of tax. Both my brothers earn very modest wages and I would be happy to see policies put in place to ensure that a living wage is paid to all. If you want more than a living wage then work harder or study more…alternatively…chill out and ride more bikes.

hora – I think I love you

hora – Member
Socialist Who ker

Eh?

Of course…on the internet, you don’t get to hear from the hard working, but “done to” people…the Starbucks and carehome workers.
Instead you hear from people who equate sitting on their backsides with being “done to”.

How else do you describe these “super rich” then, Hora, if not super rich? The duke of Westminster with 13 billion, The Reubens, Philip Green and Ecclestone. Read Forbes for a longer list.

Edukator has a point. The super rich need the rest of us more than the rest of us need the super rich. But this thread is about folk on £50k or so. So mixing up “well paid professional” with “super rich” is hardly helping this conversation.

AFKASTR

Low rent on a small 2 bed gaff in a non-descript town near where we grew up..
No debts (I’ve never even tried to get credit))
No vehicle
Pretty much exclusively second hand stuff inside the family home
Mostly charity shops for clothes
No expensive holidays
Sensible food budget
No luxury items obvs
Triggers broom bikes

I’m a stay at home dad but can take on casual labour if and when required, and I sell a painting two or three times per year..
My other half works as few hours as poss (NHS and cafe/bar work) to cover rent and living costs and will put in extra hours if we decide to save up for a trip abroad or a festival or summink

A couple of gigs per year and a show or two.. plenty of books music and R4 at home and a drop or two of wine on a regular basis…. err

a stay at home dad but can take on casual labour if and when required, and I sell a painting two or three times per year..

Like that bloke with all the looted nazi paitings?

heh! I wish… Art thief was one of the careers I considered at school 🙂

So yunki. Back to your first post on page 1.

You chose and actively chose your life and lifestyle yet slag off someone who actually goes out to work and thus earns money?

I really hope you don’t claim any assistance/tax relief if you both want to avoid work.

AFKASTR

Low rent on a small 2 bed gaff in a non-descript town near where we grew up..
No debts (I’ve never even tried to get credit))
No vehicle
Pretty much exclusively second hand stuff inside the family home
Mostly charity shops for clothes
No expensive holidays
Sensible food budget
No luxury items obvs
Triggers broom bikes

I’m a stay at home dad but can take on casual labour if and when required, and I sell a painting two or three times per year..
My other half works as few hours as poss (NHS and cafe/bar work) to cover rent and living costs and will put in extra hours if we decide to save up for a trip abroad or a festival or summink

A couple of gigs per year and a show or two.. plenty of books music and R4 at home and a drop or two of wine on a regular basis…. err

And how much money do you get from the state – child benefit, Working Tax Credits, Housing Benefits?

Sounds like you are living off us? 😕

I get child benefit

I consider myself more lefty than nasty right winger but have I read correctly, there are some commenting regarding the selfish greed of the OP yet they choose not to work full-time but receive ‘benefits’?

Ah, the politics of envy coming out now.

hora et al..

I’ve just never understood the nation’s grand delusion that acquiring wealth is the mark of a man
I’ve never understood why a job with a suit is better paid than a job in boots and overalls
I’ve never understood the preoccupation with surrounding oneself with expensive status symbols..
I’ve never understood why my hard work should line some posh ****’s pockets..

I would however, quite like a nice garden, but alas for now that is not meant to be

I think the envy starts with the OP

We can only afford to have one child. If I dropped salary drastically and played the numbers I could have a second. Quid’s in!

Got those sums done yet Hora?