FC is not the landowner they are the land MANAGER. We (the nation) own the land.

Sorry, bug bear 😉

So basically, go out and enjoy some cheeky trails if you want to. But do it sensitivly.

The cheeky trails website sums it up.

No need to go round in circles discussing it. It wont make it any different.

Im off now to ride a brilliant bit of footpath while its quite.

. We (the nation) own the land. come the revolution brothers!!

Stockhill near us is a forestry commision plantation they lease it off Lord Waldegrave.We don't own that

Thank you Mr Smart Arse 😉

You are correct though. They manage the Public Forest Estate which is the nations. They also manage parcels of land for other people / organisations / estates. However, in no real instances are they the land owner and the (IMO) vast majority of land they manage is PFE. To dwell on the odd exception in some hope of proving some probably spurious point doesn't really seem worthwhile.

I have no aspirations to socialism or any other "brother"hood but I do think that a public body / quango tasked with management of "our" land ought to deliver the objectives placed on it by Government and for the benefit of the population. I have lots of experience dealing with FE / FC and IMO this doesn't happen as much or as well as it could or ought.

However, I happily acknowledge that without FE we wouldn't have lots of trails and trail centres so I am not wholly critical of them at all. I think they've done a great job in places and at times. Also, I don't think this thread needs to become another debate about FE/C as that has been done (and probably continues) already.

T 😎

Edric, I thought you said that…

Lets get it straight Cheeky = illegal calling it something else doesn't change what it is

…and…

It is illegal to cycle on public footpaths and you are open to civil prosecution by the land owner for tresspass.

…and…

Some people on here really seem to have no respect for the country or those who own and work the land .Can I suggest they stay in town and take up squash again?

But a vague reference to "tradition or tolerance"? That's all right then!

The CROW has no bearing on access rights except on foot, and the last paragraph in your cut-and-paste just says access granted under CROW doesn't nullify any rights that already exist.

The trig point is on CROW access land, so people who walk up to it are perfectly within their rights even though it's not a footpath. But it's not a bridleway, and you (like me and many other people) ride it anyway. Of course this is ridiculous as it's on the main track which is far better defined than some of the actual bridleways nearby, but these kind of anomalies abound and are the cause of much of the conflict.

I've pressed this point to try and help you see it's not black and white.

Yes Epic I do know that.So what is the best way to fight the legislation from the 50s and 60s that graded lots of paths as footpath only? Do we continue to piss people of by certain actions? yes I may have had a troll with some comments but we are not going to get a Kinder Scout type action success are we?And some paths have obviously never carried wheeled traffic.What about Velvet Bottom do yopu think that should be Bridleway all the way through? It must have carried horse or wheeled traffic to service the mining industry from Roman times?

I've just read through this thread for the first time, and I must admit that if i ever saw sfb I'd really like to render him incapable of riding a bike permenantly for the sake of the rest of us.

So what is the best way to fight the legislation from the 50s and 60s that graded lots of paths as footpath only?

as I understand it, the classification was supposed to be based on prior use, but many of the committees involved were stuffed with those entertaining the landowners' interests 🙁 The lack of a right of way on footpaths for bikers is case (civil) law based on the idea that a bike is not a common thing ("reasonable accompaniment") for a person to have with them, in the way that you would have a right to carry a stick or push a pram, but not take a piano or a horse. It's quite a fine distinction, because the bike need not take up any more room or be any heavier than a pram, unlike pianos and horses (or any powered vehicle). Were one to attempt a legal challenge, this seems to me to be the weak point, as actual legislation can overturn case law

Yep, true dat. I'm thinking in terms of baby steps though. Round my way it would be a major undertaking just to replace the kissing gates and stiles with cyclist-friendly access.

Disability discrimination act compliance was is already been taken by some local authorities as gates when ever possible. 3 or 4foot because its pedestrian rather than the 5foot required for a bridle gate. Yes I know there are lots of bridlegates at different sizes and quite possibly new ones going in at different sizes but the big book of access says 5foot.

In the new economic reality there wont be much chance of gate upgrades or anything else.

…that if i ever saw sfb I'd really like to render him incapable of riding a bike permenantly for the sake of the rest of us.

I neglected to mention that rather obvious fact, but of course you could easily find me as my whereabouts are published on the Bog Trotters website rides list, or you could locate me in Costa Coffee in Lancaster most early afternoons 🙂 However, in practical terms I think it would be a waste of time (even though richly deserved) as there are hundreds of other riders of similar persuasion, not all of whom will be as pacifistic as me…

Changing the way a bike is viewed is prob the best way to do it. Scotish and English law view bikes differently.

Round my way it would be a major undertaking just to replace the kissing gates and stiles with cyclist-friendly access.

this could be a major barrier to a change in access, unless it were framed in such a way as to say that you have the right of way provided you can navigate the existing obstacles, whatever they may be – however I'm not sure if all those obstacles are not already illegal due to their implicit obstruction of disabled persons.

One of the main problems with waiting for more access is that the wheels of change move incredibly slowly, there has been no change of use (or condition) of any of the cheeky stuff Ive been riding for the past 20 years, I very much doubt there will be any change in the next 20 either, by which time Ill be a rather old gent pootling along river banks and the like.
So in the meantime…..

Them: You shouldn't be riding here
You: Are you landowner?
Them: No
You: Wtf has it got to do with you then? Got a big f'in gap in your miserable life and need to fill it by moaning at someone out having fun at no expense to yourself?

that's not very diplomatic 🙁

I doubt very much that landowners are going to be obliged to make all rights of way accessible to wheelchair uses. I don't see farmers even making efforts to restore tracks after ploughing or harvesting; they're too busy growing food for us. Some FPs and BWs are barely accessible to the able bodied!

But the fact is, you can lift a bike over a stile, gate or fence. And doing that is really just saying what Dave said in his article: a bike is not a horse.

Are we done?

Are we done?

I thought we'd hardly started yet…

Has anyone mentioned 2026, after which point the definative map – big map / book of access rights gets closed to claiming historic rights of way?

Well, until such time as we have an organisation that represents the interests of mountain bikers, I'm with sfb. In spirit anyway.

In practice I find it rather difficult to do, probably due to the number of shoots in the South.

As regards dialogue with National Trust etc., pigs might fly. 🙄

Edit: Can you seriously imagine the NT welcoming mountain bikers? Heaven forbid, we may want to use their tea rooms and frighten away their middle-class clientele.

Today we had one of those miserable twots as we rode on one of the few legal bits of Offa's path who gave several riders I was with a right mouthful of abuse.

As I arrived behind him & his companion who was quite happy to step aside I gave a cheery "good afternoon I'm a local access officer for North Wales and I think you need to check your facts before you mouth off again"

I've never seen someone so interested in their shoes as him at that point 🙄

until such time as we have an organisation that represents the interests of mountain bikers

I've tried to explain why I think that unlikely. The best representative I've seen was Mark Graylish (IMBA) – very organised and coherent – but then he skipped the country 🙁

Heaven forbid, we may want to use their tea rooms and frighten away their middle-class clientele.

on the thread about cheap treats binners insists MTB is essentially middle class 🙂

"we may want to use their tea rooms and frighten away their middle-class clientele."

…to be replaced by another middle-class clientèle, but a bit hairier and smellier, and with penchant for spangly bikes 😀

I am definitely not middle-class! Grrrrrrr.

I have a middle class income but a sorta hippie mentality 🙂

Hippie mentality is good, sometimes one needs to stick two fingers up to conformity.

I detest this class thing. 😈

Well living in Essex I'm a bit short on interesting terrain, & as far as lovely singletrack winding through bluebell carpeted woods goes, it's all footpaths & nature reserves (Danbury & little baddow)I was riding through some of them yesterday afternoon,if there is someone walking the dog I/we ease up on the speed & often pull over to let them pass ,say hello & comment on such lovely (or crap) weather,sometimes you hear some tutting & once in a while someone a bit more vocal to which I've suggested that they shouldn't let it spoil their day,,then dropped a couple of gears & shot off as fast as my occasionally jelly legs would take me.as for night rides well then the world is of course your lobster. at the of the day we don't leave any litter about the place or break any fences and we avoid the most sensitive areas when it's likely to be a bit soft & squidgy under foot/tyre so as not to churn it up, and after skimming through this thread I now feel ever so slightly naughty..which i quite like.

But the fact is, you can lift a bike over a stile, gate or fence

Yep. Or stand there until someone comes along who can lift it over for you. 🙂

Nevertheless, from my experience in the muddy West Country, the tempting thought that if the RoW laws were rolled back we would suddenly have miles of flowing singletrack to ride on is a bit unrealistic. As the Cheeky website says, there isn't anough of it anywhere.

we would suddenly have miles of flowing singletrack to ride on is a bit unrealistic.

don't we appreciate it more for its rarity ? Most of the places I ride the terrain changes constantly, wide/narrow, grassy/tussocky/gravelly/rocky/insane, straight/sweeping/twisty, flat/gentle/steep/carry and I just try to ride as much of it as I can 🙂

that's not very diplomatic

I don't really mouth off to miserable buggers, more likely to just smile, suggest that it's too nice a day to argue about something of such little consequence and wish them well.

I don't really mouth off to miserable buggers, more likely to just smile

ah, so the effing and blinding was purely in your head ? Good lad 🙂

This is my first post being a 45 year old late starter whos been riding for a grand total of 6 months now. Have emailed Dave about this article with my views on footpath riding. Can you imagine how much of our 'playground' we wouldn't see if it wasn't for riding footpaths. Sorry, but I'd rather be a bit of a bad lad and ride footpaths, they have taken me to some amazing places, some great views and wicked riding mixed with pushing through horizontal rain on wild windswept moors. Ok, Summer is here now and I pass a lot more walkers than usual, but no glaring Mexican standoffs, abuse or major distain yet. Just a few tuts here and there and the odd laserbeam eyes trying to cut through me and my Corratec. Mostly its polite 'hellos' and 'lovely day'…lets keep it respectful, not only for all of use using the paths but also for the paths themselves. Look after our playground, it will last longer, and the maybe those people who consider themselves our leaders will see than we can conserve our land and will relax those laws that restrict us, or at least try, to wide boring metalled roads.
No matter what I will carry on riding footpaths, even if I have to starting wearing a mask and change my name to Dick Turpin. 'Who's he?' you say….now I do feel old. See you out there…..

well I do cheeky trails all the time – on my own or just the 2 of us and most people are friendly and have no issues is we are polite and slow down etc.