It’s also not all about the sole. For actual mountain biking, you want shoes that won’t get sodden with water, are lightweight yet won’t fall apart, will allow you to hike-a-bike when necessary, have a stiff sole, will fit well and have a reliable way of tightening.
Vans are fine for sole grip most of the time but they fall flat on most of the other counts.
No one seems to make a proper riding shoe with all the above features sans cleats. Even 5:10s are heavy and absorbent. Whilst my AM41s admittedly aren’t as grippy and haven’t lasted me very well, I think they’re better than 5:10s for a lot of that list.