…..leaves a mess suggesting you had more fn than you actually did…!!!

I’m really thinking about getting a second set of wheels for summer/winter race tyres! This is becoming a real pain – think I just need to strip out the old strip and tape, and start afresh with new valves and yellow tape!
It becomes harder each change!,

DrP

What we could do with, is some kind of rubber tube, to go inside the tyre…

Keep talking…

DrP

(in reality, on average I spend as much time on the trail fixing punctures on my tubed wheels, as I do swearing and faffing at home with the tubeless set!)

Removed my first tubeless tyre the other day and thought exactly this. You have the valve blocking with sealant when you try to deflate the tyre, the stubborn refusal of the tyre to part company with the rim strip, the sidewalls sticking together when you try to pull the tyre off the rim and the rest of the evening trying to get latex off the hairs on the back of the hands.

I did tubeless as a trial. Slimy inner tubes seem to offer the best of both worlds.

The real “issue” is that once seated, tubeless is (in my use) faultless, trouble free, and much more reliable that tubed tyres.
It’s the swapping tyres that’s a real ball ache!

DrP

I just changed some XR4s to a Rubber Queen UST and a X-King Protection. Apart from putting the RQ on backwards and having to reverse it, the process was shockingly effortless! Popped the beads off the XR4s, sucked the sealant out, swapped the new tyres on, squirted some sealant through the valves (cores out), pumped the tyres up with a track pump to pop the beads on, put the valves back in and reinflated and gave then a spin and that was it.

The irony is that these tyres are my latest attempt to find a set that work for all my riding, including XC and gravity enduro races, all year round…

Dunno what you guys are doing wrong, I find it easier changing a tubeless tyre then a tubed tyre.

Air out, sealant out, tyre off, new tyre on, sealant in, air in, done. Where’s the issue?

BTW if you’re having problems with gunked up valves, just take a valve out of an old tube, and swap them over. Simples. Only needs doing like once a year or so.

If valves are gunking up make sure before you re install them after first filling of latex that you dip them in some vaseline-it stops the latex from adhering.
I have to admit I am a ghetto tubeless convert-so easy and with the correct choice of year round rubber, no need to swap out tyres till they are trashed.

(in reality, on average I spend as much time on the trail fixing punctures on my tubed wheels, as I do swearing and faffing at home with the tubeless set!)

You’re doing it all wrong then fella… It’s all about the correct technique and equipment. Tubeless is a faff with the wrong tyre/rim combos and poor technique, but if you select all your kit correctly and use due diligence, it’s a piece of piss!

It’s the swapping tyres that’s a real ball ache!

There are some pretty decent “all seasons” tyres out there these days to negate the need to swap so much. Ok, never as good as true conditions specific tyres, but if you really don’t wanna change tyres any more, you could do a lot worse than buy some Conti Rubber Queens for instance.

For gunked up valves, remove the core with a core remover, poke something like an old spoke through the hole to clear it out, then reinsert the valve core and away you go. Takes literally 30 seconds.

Mmm i’ve just put the stans no tubes stuff in my inner tubes. No punchers since christmas quite a few thorns aswell

Mmm i’ve just put the stans no tubes stuff in my inner tubes. No punchers since christmas quite a few thorns aswell

All you’ve done there is eliminate the effects of thorn punctures.

You’re still susceptible to pinch punctures, and it’s quite a bit heavier than either tubes on their own or a proper tubeless setup.

Mmm i’ve just put the stans no tubes stuff in my inner tubes. No punchers since christmas quite a few thorns aswell

?

Also wondering what happens when it doesn’t work, and you end up carrying a tube full of sealant for the rest of the ride as it leaks slowly into your pack lol.

Not sure four scoops of latex is going to weigh me down. Never had pinch flats though do run at 38-40psi 17.5st doesnt like soft tyres

similar story to shedfulls post.I used Joes rimstrips & sealant with
Conti mountain kings on Mavic x317 rims for 6 months & thought this
was great.I carried a spare tube incase something went wrong on the trail
blissfully unaware that I could not have put it in.When I tried to get
the tyres off in my workshop to swap wheels I had to use flat bladed screwdrivers after breaking all my tyre levers.At present I have tubes
in while I consider what to do next.

Not sure four scoops of latex is going to weigh me down.

FOUR?!?!

I put one and a bit in each of my tyres… 4 scoops, that’s 240ml per tube!!! You’re more than doubling the weight of your inner tube!

Never had pinch flats though do run at 38-40psi 17.5st doesnt like soft tyres

I’m 6 stone lighter than you, and have pinch flatted tyres at higher pressures than that… Your point is?

I think my rim strip is borked, so loose air around the spokes, rather than tyre…..
Ex 5.1 rims with proper strips and valves.

Think I’ll make a ghetto strip again….

DrP

FOUR?!?!

I put one and a bit in each of my tyres… 4 scoops, that’s 240ml per tube!!! You’re more than doubling the weight of your inner tube!

Of course those pesky heavy innertubes curse them for being so heavy. I know i’ll put a strip of sealing rubber/ tape inside the wheel and use some heavier tyres to save weight from useing an inner tube.

I did try the getto method but was replacing a innertube for another inner tube cut to form a seal (bit pointless).

Never had pinch flats though do run at 38-40psi 17.5st doesnt like soft tyres

I’m 6 stone lighter than you, and have pinch flatted tyres at higher pressures than that… Your point is?
[/quote]

not sure, or what yours is (are you better then me for having more punchers?). Just saying the argument against pinch flats can’t realy be used as i’ve not suffered from them, i’ve not noticed any weight penalty of suffered a puncher since putting the stuff in my tubes.

The origonal post was about changing tyres and the mess, i dont have that problem thats all.

DrP you are using the DT Swiss tubeless strip, aren’t you? Never had a problem with my 4.2D rims with their strip in them.

Proper strip, yes.

It’s gotten a bit twisted, and leaks around the valve…..

DrP

I think tubeless is not good for people who swap tyres every weekend for racing.

I tend to use a winter tyre and a ‘summer’ tyre and change over spring and autumn. The summer tyre is an Intense System 5 so not terribly slick but a good all rounder in all but the stickiest mud.

If I were racing I’d have a second set of wheels with the race tyres on rather than faff regularly, too.

Oh, and get some ‘proper’ ust rims (Mavic 819’s are great) if you are goign to change them regularly – no strips for the tyre to stick to and have to degunk every time you change over.

I sorted out my tubeless front last night as it had started deflating; looked to be air escaping through the spokes.
I won a garden sprayer in a raffle recently (bit random) so put that to use.
I use 3 revolutions of electrical tape to seal the spokes – 1 central and two hugging the edges. I took the old stuff off, cleaned the rim with ipa & stuck a new lot on.
Cleaned the bead of the tyre a bit & then whacked the tyre on.
The garden sprayed had the tyre popped onto the rim straight away! I was really impressed. Just need to do the rear tyre now.

I only swapped over to tubeless to avoid the thorn punctures in Spain, but once set-up they need very little attention so I have stuck with it.
I’ve only used Specialized 2bliss tyres, so not sure how easy other ones are…

DrP – Don’t use a rimstrip!

A few wraps of electrical tape and a tubeless valve is all you need. And swapping tyres also becomes much easier.

I’ve done it on 4.2 and 5.1 DT rims with no problems. Maxxis, Spesh, Conti and Bonty tyres, so not that finicky either.

And I run under 25psi on the front and no probs in years of use.

(in reality, on average I spend as much time on the trail fixing punctures on my tubed wheels, as I do swearing and faffing at home with the tubeless set!)

Really?? I seem to remember this taking quite a while to fix…

Ending in a tube being fitted I think 😉

IMG_2403 by PeterPoddy, on Flickr

Choose different tyres?

I find Schwalbe excellent, and find that all my sets (Rons, Ralphs, Freds, Nics, Black Sharks and Dans) will inflate with a track pump on my Olympics and Podiums. 5 minutes to change.

If you can afford it then a spare set of ust wheels is a great hassle free solution, xt ust rims work really well with 2bliss and kenda block 8s, I found mud x a real bitch to seat with a track pump, as far as sealant rrp xc puncture guard is my choice. Never used schwable off road tyres, maybe next time.

An interesting thread ! I posted yesterday having spent 4 hours on Sunday changing 3 tyres/tubes onto Stans NoTubes rims (one of which has to be redone), getting the tyres on and off was a real hassle.

ive got 819s and 823s and with UST/LUST/TLR tyres by Maxxis/Bontrager/Schwalbe the tyres drop on the rims and inflate as easily as with a tube using a track pump.

ive recently had the ‘pleasure’ of working with a pair of stans crests – reminds me of my early days playing at ghetto tubeless.

just no contest.

I’ve also found that rolling the wheel and putting slight pressure on the tyre whilst pumping very slowly helps get the tyre seal and seat, I used to loose patience, pump too fast and get in a right tiz.

I did actually go down the road of having 2 full sets of wheels for a while on my DH bike;
One “General purpose” pair with tires for dry to moist conditions the other fitted with a pair of cheapish 2.2″ Slow Reezay Swamp donkeys for Mud (Which were very very draggy)…

Barely ever used the 2nd set with the Mud tires fitted TBH, unless it was properly muddy, and even then I might only swap the front and stick it out with the normal rear the 2nd wheelset is now sat in the Garage along with the tires (No longer fitted) waiting for me to think of something more useful to do with them…

The real issue for me was that you either exchange one form of faff for another or wind up wasting lots of money on parts that barely ever get used…

Plus do you swap the cassette and brake rotors between wheelsets each time? or have a 2nd set of rotors/casstte fitted and ready to go on the spare set and hope that the Alignment of mechs and calipers is OK between the 2 sets?

It’s all relative of course,

OPtion 1 – a perfectly aligned (identical?) 2nd set of wheels/rotors/casstte and a 60 second wheel swap Vs
Option 2 – a ~20 minutes of messy tubeless faffing every once in a while Vs
Option 3 – Just ‘put up’ with riding non-mud specific tires on wet days?

I pretty much go with Option 3 now and just treat it as a “ride what ya Brung” sort of thing…

soobalias – Member
ive got 819s and 823s and with UST/LUST/TLR tyres by Maxxis/Bontrager/Schwalbe the tyres drop on the rims and inflate as easily as with a tube using a track pump.

ive recently had the ‘pleasure’ of working with a pair of stans crests – reminds me of my early days playing at ghetto tubeless.

just no contest.

I seem to end up writing something similar on all tubeless threads, but this^

Tubeless without UST rims is like Noel Edmonds – a pain in the arse and mostly pointless.

I seem to end up writing something similar on all tubeless threads, but this^

Tubeless without UST rims is like Noel Edmonds – a pain in the arse and mostly pointless.

After 8 years of experimenting with various different solutions, I’d agree that UST is perhaps the most convenient way to do it, but my experience tells me proper tubeless tyres are sooooooo much more important than the type of rim you use. In fact, I’ve had just as quick, easy and reliable results using both the ghetto and Stan’s conversion methods on normal rims but with proper tubeless tyres as I have using UST rims.

Also, Mavic 819’s whilst very stiff, are narrow and heavy. Mavic 823’s are a nice width, but they weigh a bloody tonne!

My preferred method now is definitely the BMX inner tube ghetto method. Stock up on BMX inner tubes for about £2 a go from your local supermarket, and off you go… Takes barely 5 minutes to convert from start to finish, and because of the overlap on the BMX innertube and your tyre, it is inherently safer against burping than using a Stan’s rimstrip or a UST rim.

not sure, or what yours is (are you better then me for having more punchers?). Just saying the argument against pinch flats can’t realy be used as i’ve not suffered from them, i’ve not noticed any weight penalty of suffered a puncher since putting the stuff in my tubes.

Just because you have not suffered from them! :LOL:

My point was that whilst that might be ok for you, you seem to be suggesting it should be fine for everyone else. That you can’t pinch puncture at that pressure doesn’t mean someone else can’t. I used to pinch all the time, even running silly pressures, which meant a total lack of grip. Going over to tubeless has pretty much solved that, and I can run my tyres at slightly lower pressures for better grip without risking a pinch puncture.

Tubeless isn’t for everyone, but those it does work for it works for good reason. I’ve only had one tubeless incident (the other weekend actually) that I couldn’t fix trailside, so I just stuck an inner tube in it… The fact I then punctured 4 times in the next 4 miles with inner tubes, is testament to the fact I hate the bloody things!

Tubeless without UST rims is like Noel Edmonds – a pain in the arse and mostly pointless.

Agree. I’ve mostly given up writing stuff like that on tubeless threads cuz people never seem to listen?

What we really need is to classify tubeless threads into “Proper” i.e. UST and “bodge jobs” i.e. anything involving rim strips or non-optional sealant or other p*ssing about.

A job worth doing is a job worth doing well.

As for the original post: get UST. You’ll then be able to change tyres whenever you like using no more than your hands and a track pump (sealant optional).

Pete
UST user for over 11 years (‘kin ‘ell – didn’t realise it was that long!)

A job worth doing is a job worth doing well.

Agree, but it’s the tyres that are important, not the rims.

Mark
UST user for almost 9 years, that has finally given in and seen the light of lighter/wider rims with proper tubeless tyres still!

I’ve got to dissagree with some of the above, I’ve had a few adventures with tubelessness now and certainly agree with ‘mboy’that investing in proper UST or at least “tubeless compatable” tires is definately worth while.

Having done a few split BMX tube ‘Ghetto’ rim stips conversions on rims that weighed and cost a fair bit less than an EX823 with no ill effects I can’t really see why you’d pay ~£60+ a rim for them… I’ve also got lighter UST compatible rims that work well too though…

I’ll agree that in most instances attempting to convert a Non-tubeless/UST tire generates more ballache than the £10-£15 saved by not buying the pukka tire…

I think it all comes down to patience and preparation, writing off any setup other than the High price point manufacturer endorsed UST one as a ‘Bodge’ is a touch short sighted IMO…

Nice one rich!!!! However- that was a proper slash in the sidewall, which would have taken out any tube in there also 😉

The tyres are proper tubeless – nobby nic “whatever the proper tubeless name is”…..
I think my issue is with air leaving through the rim, not the tube….

Will invest in some yellow tape (or alternative) and ditch the rim strip….

I think a second set of wheels will be a bit excessive… ( also, this year hasn’t been “typical” for the summer/winter switchover has it!)

DrP

Actually, I’ve a few 20″ tubes from my ghetto days on other rims – I seem to recall that being the most straightforward, and there’s no chance of air leak around the valve either……

DrP

A second pair of wheels works well for me!!

But… Changing isn’t that bad, unseat, scoop out, remove tyre, clean the rim, stick new tyre on, inflate, inject latex. How hard can it be?

Oh and clean up the old tyre!

stick new tyre on, inflate, inject latex.

?

How hard can it be?

When it works it works, when it doesn’t………!

DrP