meh, at least he unclipped 😉

(mend soon)

Do bogtrotters and their guests get frequent flier miles/ have an account with air ambulance? 😀

Do bogtrotters and their guests get frequent flier miles/ have an account with air ambulance?

the other helicopter passenger was just someone we found lying broken on the trail, while all the other Hope Challengers left him to his fate (or attempted to fall on top of him while rubbernecking). In the 14 years I've been with the club we've called out mountain rescue approx 6 times.

I only ask as the climbing club seem to manage a couple a year (for the past 3 years) and it's a standing joke (if a touch gallows humour).

Glad you're OK James, you're not the first Boggie to fall foul of that particular jump

Glad you're OK James, you're not the first Boggie to fall foul of that particular jump

smokey_jo:

sorry not very good:

That's just fine. 😉

He should have popped the front more. Thank god he's not in a position where he can influence future MTB stars.

crunch! Glad you're ok mate, but have you thought about joining the olympic diving team?

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy…

simonfbarnes – Member

In the 14 years I've been with the club we've called out mountain rescue approx 6 times.

Jeezo thats an awful record – or were they all walking wounded you couldn't be bothered to evacuate yourselves?

I find that absolutely astonishing that you would be calling the mountain rescue out so often

James you do like a ride in a helicopter. Glad to hear your ok.

"or were they all walking wounded you couldn't be bothered to evacuate yourselves?"

The decision to involve either the air ambulance or mountain rescue is not made by the individuals involved – that decision is made by the emergency services when you ring 999. All accidents i have been involved with have been genuine with no walking wounded in fact any attemt to move the individual although well intentioned could have made the injury and subsequent recovery a lot worse.

Hobbit – its always hard to say without being there. However for a broken arm or a cut face I would be self evacuating – indeed I have done so. Perhaps I have more confidence in my skills and itvbis the way I was trained in mountaincraft and first aid.

As for

that decision is made by the emergency services when you ring 999.

Utter piffle

The first thing to consider is do you ring 999. I would only do so if self evacuation was not an option. What would you have done in the days before mobile phones? Self evacuation is almost always quicker.

Of course you don't do it if there is a suspected spinal injury but for cuts and simple fractures?

or were they all walking wounded you couldn't be bothered to evacuate yourselves?

1) Pre mobiles. 16yr old decides ride is too hard and turns back with clear directions & car key. Gets lost in fog and goes 15 miles in wrong direction. When the others get back they cannot get in car and boyo nowhere to be seen. Called MR.
2) Broken collar bone and smashed face on Jacob's Ladder
3) Broken ankle on Elterwater Common
4) Stranger with severe dislocated shoulder nr. Jacob's Ladder
6) Broken arm (compound spiral fracture) on Scaleclose in Borrowdale
6) Possible severe neck injury nr. Cark Hall (we thought he might be dead)
7) Oops, not a club ride but a member got benighted on Esk Hause with a large group of novices and no lights

I've broken or dislocated various bits and always walked/ridden out, but they have never hurt me at the time. People vary. We had a talk from Bowland MR some years ago and they told us never to hesitate to call them out if we thought we needed help, they'd prefer a false alarm to having someone suffer unecessarily. I'd also like to say that the care I've observed has always been of the highest standard and unstintingly given! Mountain rescue and the air ambulance service (also a charity) enable us to take risks in the countryside in the knowledge that help will be given if needed, and as such they deserve our wholehearted support. I would never call them needlessly, but we are not medically qualified, and particularly if a neck or head injury is involved, or the victim is in severe pain, I would call with a clear conscience.

James you do like a ride in a helicopter.

he told me it was ghastly, he was strapped down to a stretcher which fitted into runners on the heli, so all he could see were the rotors, and blood was running down his nose into his throat. Luckily it only took about 10 minutes to get to Lancaster.

Yowza! Glad crazylegs is fine and great timing sfb!

Mountain rescue and the air ambulance service (also a charity) enable us to take risks in the countryside in the knowledge that help will be given if needed,

This is the attitude I cannot stand. They are not there to enable you to take risks. YOu should be self reliant and able to deal with things yourselves. They are there to pick up the pieces after you make serious mistakes I would be severely embarrassed with that number of callouts – some obvious errors made there and some poor leadership.

Collar bone, fractured arm, dislocated shoulder? Walking wounded self evacuation. Send a 16 yr old to return on his own – poor leadership skills as is the benighting.

but we are not medically qualified, and particularly if a neck or head injury is involved, or the victim is in severe pain, I would call with a clear conscience.

Of course – if in doubt call them out. Thats not my point. My point is that you have had a lot of callouts and from what info I have most of them arte completely uneeded – but I was not there at the time.

Self evacuation is almost always quicker anyway

With a record like that you really should be getting some proper training

Crazy Legs, hope you get better and back on the bike soon.
TJ your a twonk.

Pity we didn't have an expert in mountaincraft like TJ with us he would have had the lad up & riding again in no time

Thanks toys – I'm a twonk for wanting people to take responsibility for their actions?

Fizzer – I wasn't there so I cannot say what I would have done. Possible neck injury then 999 perhaps best. However I have dealt with a few injuries on the hills – the worst being a fracture dislocation of the shoulder.

All those emergency callouts over the years – an appalling record

No your a twonk for reducing everything you see to an opportunity to puff your chest out and hold forth on matters of the day. You were not there on any of the occasions so you do not know anything about it. Not only are you a twonk, you are a troll. I have no idea why you are tolerated on here.

Collar bone, fractured arm, dislocated shoulder? Walking wounded self evacuation.

TJ, you weren't there. Some people cope with pain better than others (I usually have to be prevented from riding on even when knocked senseless). It's a judgement call based on circumstances

This is the attitude I cannot stand. They are not there to enable you to take risks.

well, tough, ain't it ? Getting out of bed is a risk. No one wants to be injured and the pain and inconvenience are more than enough of a deterrent to recklessness, but on the other hand most of us enjoy a degree of danger, which means things will go wrong from time to time.

Send a 16 yr old to return on his own – poor leadership skills as is the benighting.

agreed, and I hope we learned from the experiences. People do make mistakes.

With a record like that you really should be getting some proper training

yesterday we had a nurse and a doctor with us, at the dislocation we had a 4th year doctor. They were quite diffident. If qualified professionals choose to take a back seat I don't feel obligated to take training and feel I already have enough to do.

1) Pre mobiles. 16yr old decides ride is too hard and turns back with clear directions & car key. Gets lost in fog and

Great send a kid off on their own in fog and waste MR time when someone might really need them.The others seem genuine that one was a bit daft.

TJ sentiments +1

Trail park riding styles are not always appropriate in the mountains.

But as said, he wasn't there, and the person on the spot is the one who has to make a decision, and that decision should be respected regardless of what hindsight might say.

The best decision is the one that results in a safe exit.

No your a twonk for reducing everything you see to an opportunity to puff your chest out and hold forth on matters of the day.

I've gotta agree that's how it comes across.

I wasn't there so I cannot say what I would have done.

But you did anyway, I think that's the point.

Also, six callouts in 14 years? Now, the bogtrotters are the antithesis of the kind of ride i like (I'm an antisocial git) but when you multiply the hours ridden by the numbers of riders on each ride over 14 years… i don't think it's so bad (and judging by the Hope challenge one that wasn't one of 'theirs' just some poor guy who'd been ignored by other riders who no doubt tutted at him for not MTFU).

Look – I fully accept and stated in my posts above that not being there I cannot say for sure what I would have done – the judgement can only be made by those on the ground on the ground.

However I find some of the attitudes displayed and judgements made appear on the surface to be not taking responsibility for you actions and to default to relying on the emergency services far to readily.

I believe in being self reliant and in accumulating the skills and knowledge to be so. What happens is the air ambulance is really needed someone while you tie it up? What happens if there is no mobile signal? Waht happens if the MR team are out on another call?

I am with TJ on t his one.

Mountain rescue and the air ambulance are not there to allow us to take risks in the countryside. They are there to pick up the pieces when people who have been acting responsibly have got themselves into trouble even though they have taken sensible precautions.

I come from a kayaking and mountaineering background where waiting for the emergency services instead of self-evacutaing would inevitably lead to death.

If you do not have the skills to assess, stabilise and evacuate walking wounded then perhaps it might be an idea to go and get those skills.

I expect to be flamed for taking this position but dont care. Anyone who has spent a considerable amount of time in harsh environments would take the same standpoint.

The nurse and doctor are not trained in outdoor first aid. Although I am pretty sure that if they thought that Crazy_legs's life was in danger they would have been right in there. I have noticed this reserved position with Drs in my groups before. They also say that it is because they think those of us who are trained specifically in outdoor first aid do a far better job than they would.

Great send a kid off on their own in fog and waste MR time when someone might really need them

I agree, though I wasn't there. The way back was very obvious and straightforward, except for the first turn which may have been hidden by falling mist. I never did understand how the lad could not realise miles of road down Langstrathdale was not Cam High Road (a very rough track)

Trail park riding styles are not always appropriate in the mountains.

James was quick to say that he's done loads of far more difficult and dangerous jumps before, without turning a hair. He's an experienced rider and had no expectation of difficulty.

I believe in being self reliant and in accumulating the skills and knowledge to be so.

Yeah, me too as I ride solo a lot pretty much all of the time but I also realise that that's not the case for everyone and the way you spluttered outrage like an apoplectic colonial colonel did come across as pretty heavy handed! 🙂

James is a rubbish rider and should not be allowed near rocks. Barnes, you ave just destroyed our pub quiz team by allowing him to crash in such a manner and rendering him "hors service" for a few weeks. Ggrrr *shakes fist*

ps get well soon James

pps the above statements may not all be true 😉

James is a rubbish rider and should not be allowed near rocks.

That's not what he tells me :o)

Barnes, you ave just destroyed our pub quiz team by allowing him to crash in such a manner and rendering him "hors service" for a few weeks.

as far as I could tell his memory wasn't affected, so he'll be just as rubbish at quizzes as he was before 🙂

As it happens I was idly eating my lunch and just grabbed the camera as I saw him approaching the drop.

HeathenWoods – Member

……… the way you spluttered outrage like an apoplectic colonial colonel did come across as pretty heavy handed!

Fair enough – not what was intended. Apologies for that

TJ – just for info – i'm not a doctor neither was anyone else at the scene when i broke my humerus(unknown to anyone that it was broken in 5 places), i felt i could have walked out however both the MRT doctor and the consultant explained that it i had done i would have further damaged the arm and would have required surgery, immobilising the injury and keeping it still was the best thing. i apologised to the MRT who decided to stretcher me out as they decided evacuation by landrover would be too painful. In this case staying where i was and calling the emergency services has saved myself considerable pain and damage and saved the NHS a considerable amount of money.

I think TJ deserves credit for out-smugging and out-grumping me – quite an achievement! I nominate him for an award in recognition.

appear on the surface

There's your error TJ, you didn't bother to look deep enough and passed judgement. Very mature and responsible.

What happens is the air ambulance is really needed someone while you tie it up?

Triage applies here, so if something more serious comes up they dump you.

What happens if there is no mobile signal? What happens if the MR team are out on another call?

Then they will have to deal with it on the mountain.

I have a friend in the Dartmoor Rescue here in Devon, granted its not like the big hills elsewhere but Dartmoor can be a forbidding place. I've just come off the phone with him and he said they love it when people hurt themselves so that they can put into practise everything they train for.

You guys should remember Tony Bullimore – lost in his overturned boat in the southern ocean and rescued by the Australian Navy. Some of the killjoy Aussie politicians (analogy TJ and Obi Twa) started moaning that he should pay for his own rescue (millions of ASD) until the Navy chief came out and said, nope the fuel and manpower was already paid for, we were just steaming off in a different direction before and rescuing this guy was an excellent training exercise for my boys.

My fundamental point is still that TJ is a twonk, its like some kind of pathetic existential angst he has to make big important points about stuff that does not even matter.

We have no serious things to worry about in this country, and are very lucky to have a beautiful environment to go and dick about in, and even more lucky that other people like to rescue us when we mess up.

Ta SFB

I've just come off the phone with him and he said they love it when people hurt themselves so that they can put into practise everything they train for.

yes, they've said similar things to me. It's not done out of altruism but because it's great fun 🙂

Toys – whats that wooshing noise? You missing the point again.

Nice of you to make personal attacks when you clearly don't understands the issues "you have a friend in dartmoor mountain rescue?" Wow.

I think it was the sound of your handbag passing my ear. You'll have to try harder than that TJ. I'm not as emotionally retarded as you.

Good effort. I got 24 stitches in my face once after a bike related crash so I can feel your pain. Can't wait until someone comes up with a really good post about innovative ways to park your bike.