For balance:

Barbie Doll:

Paris Hilton:

I don’t know what to think really.

I think it’s an overreaction, but it was pretty careless on her behalf.

We might not think it that serious a phrase, but to someone else it may be highly offensive. If it could be highly offensive, it’s best to avoid it, right?

Is referring to someone as Goliwog, as offensive as a referring to someone as Jew Boy? I don’t know? But it is that kind of speech and thought which did lead to a genocide. So in one sense, no what Carol Thatcher said doesn’t lead to a genocide, but in a sense if it become acceptable and mainstream like “Jew Boy”, “The Jews Killed Jesus”, “The Jews drink the blood of babies” did in pre-war “civilised” Germany who knows what could happen?

It is a difficult subject, and I don’t know what the answer is.

When I was growing up in the 80s, ‘wog’ was an offensive term, used by idiots to refer to black people. Anyone at school who used it would have got in trouble, same as ****, **** etc. It seems surprising that someone can have been so blinkered for the last 30 or 40 years not to have realised that calling someone this might be seen as offensive?

Joe

I would have thought there were better reasons for removing her from our screens than whether she likened a tennis player’s hairdo to an out of date children’s toy or not, but if that’s what it takes…

Read most but not all the posts, but I agree that Carol Thatcher out of order for calling a black person ‘golliwog’.
But even more out of order was the tw4t who reported her – what a **** sad loser 🙁

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As for where she got her racism from, yes her mother was undoubtedly a racist.
And no Stoner, not “by association” but because of what she said and did.

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However, the term “golliwog” I suspect was picked up from her father Dennis, who was famous for using such terms (nig-nog was apparently another one of his favourites) I suspect her mother was far too polite, intelligent and sensitive about her political career to use such terms.

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BTW, I’ve always quite liked and admired Carol Thatcher. Unlike her low-life oxygen thief brother, Carol has at least carved herself out a career. And a career in broadcasting couldn’t have been that easy for her, after all she’s no oil painting, and her mother’s reputation must have been a hindrance rather than a benefit to her. Moreover, I’m sure she has never needed the money.

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Good for her I reckon. And shame some ar5sehole has now stitched her up because of something silly which she said 🙁

Sticks and stones will break my bones……………..etc.

We dont need thought police, we dont need political correctness and we do need to be a bit more intellegent and think about the context and intended meaning of what people say.

When I lived in SA they would invent new rasist words as fast as you banned the old ones. Next we will not be allowd to say Robinsons.

To me, it looks like another case of someone looking to be offended

I very much doubt that it was someone who was “looking to be offended”. I suspect it was much more a case of someone wanting to stitch her up. Either because they didn’t like her or, they didn’t like her mother. I’m sure that they were very pleased that she made her ‘gollywog’ comment.

an other overreaction by the press,

But even more out of order was the tw4t who reported her – what a **** sad loser

I say hooray for the person that reported her use of the word in workplace. It should be done far more often instead of quiet disapproval and tutting.

I’ve always really disliked Carol Thatcher, not because of who her mother is but because she’s sh1t, has one fooking annoying voice, reminisces far too much about the “good old days”. I remember seeing her on the documentary where she went to visit the Falklands – Jesus H, it was cringeworthy television.

But you’re right, shge’s nowhere near as much as a waste of skin as her brother – now there’s a cvnt of the highest order.

We dont need thought police, we dont need political correctness and we do need to be a bit more intellegent and think about the context and intended meaning of what people say.

FFS, there they are again, the TP and PC brigade. Who exactly are these people? Can someone tell me who exactly is doing the policing and maintaining the political correctness? Is it a quango of which I haven’t heard? Please tell me.

So tell me deadlydarcy ……………..

Making a joke (in very poor taste) about someone looking like a ‘gollywog’ during a private conservation deserves the sack does it ?

How about you coming on a public forum calling people “sh1t” and “a cvnt of the highest order” …….. does that deserve the sack too ?

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And presumably deadlydarcy, if you heard someone in your workplace use the term ‘gollywog’ during a private conservation you would report them and have them sacked – right ?

You must be a great guy to work with 😐

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And no, I’m not complacent about racist comments at work. If I heard a comment like that I would make it clear that I wasn’t amused. A simple response like “that’s not very nice” would be enough. I wouldn’t report the person and get them the sack.

ffs.

Making a joke (in very poor taste) about someone looking like a ‘gollywog’ during a private conservation deserves the sack does it ?

It certainly deserves reprimanding wouldn’t you think? I don’t want to get into a debate about the whole BBC thing a la Ross/Brand incident, but she was asked to apologise and she refused. It would be nice to think that every workplace should adhere to the exact same standards for what is acceptable conversation, but it’s the real world and someone having a conversation in the green room of a BBC show should be reprimanded for using racist language. Whether I’d expect the same standards in a workplace where it’s expected that the language would be a lot more colourful, well, it would be nice but as I said, it’s the real world. She was reprimanded, asked to apologise and she refused. This is where any sympathy I would have had for a supposed gaffe runs out.

How about you coming on a public forum calling people “sh1t” and “a cvnt of the highest order” …….. does that deserve the sack too ?

Well, I stand by those comments – I think she is sh1t and her brother is exactly as I described (well, ok, not strictly anatomically, but I think you know what I’m getting at) – if she or her brother was black, and I used racist terms to abuse them instead, then I would expect to be at least yellow carded for a display of ignorance such as that.

Who knows, maybe the moral zeitgeist in fifty year’s time will judge us as being extremely poor and complacent, maybe it won’t. I recall a particular incident when near the Kop at Anfield when Liverpool played Blackburn years ago (possibly the late nineties but I’m not exactly sure). The ref at the time was a black referee called Uriah Rennie and Blackburn were fielding a striker called Nathan something-or-other (I think it might have been Blake), also black. IIRC, one of the linesmen (hehe, remember when they called linesmen?) was black too. There was one guy a few rows behind us who used some very upsetting language when abusing the opposition striker, ref and linesmen – it made my blood boil. I took a sneaky peek and put it this way, he would have had me for breakfast, lunch and supper if I’d said anything to him. So I didn’t, and nobody else did either – and I still feel crap about it today. Who scored the winning goal for Liverpool that night? Paul Ince did, that’s who. And that guy cheered like the rest of us. “Irony” is just too nice a word to use in that situation. Was I and all the other fans complacent? I believe that kind of behaviour would have you removed from a football ground these days – because people report it to stewards and aren’t so afraid to do so anymore…because of the “Kick It Out” campaign…derided by many at the time as “political correctness gone mad”.

You must be a great guy to work with

I wouldn’t know to be honest, I’m self-employed, so any racists who I might come across in a work situation are safe from my thought policing. But I’ll check with those who I’ve worked with in the past and let you know what they thought. I assume, some probably hated me because of my ethnicity and sticking up for myself when they made casual comments that everybody else thought were just a bit of “fun”.

You seem to be overly sensitive to the feelings of some in society yet prepared to trample on the feelings of others. This is clearly a double standard, caricatures and name calling is wrong to some sections of the community but not others, clearly you are selective as to who gets these rights? I see a clear parallel using this approach, how ironic!

There was one guy a few rows behind us who used some very upsetting language when abusing the opposition striker, ref and linesmen

despite the fact that you failed to stand up for your convictions when a smack in the mouth may have been the outcome you are happy to support those who only stand up to racists when they in no physical danger. Furthermore you feel the latter is virtuous!

I probably would have done the same as you in the first situation but not in the second.

I’ll let you have the last word.

surfer – what absolute bollocks you are talking now.

Bloody hell thats rich from you!

Making a joke (in very poor taste) about someone looking like a ‘gollywog’ during a private conservation deserves the sack does it ?

Rather depends on your definition of ‘private’. Talking in front of a bunch of guests and journalists doesn’t sound very private to me.

It was in the green room after a show, with the guests from the show there. When I was doing IT work, I’d have got myself sacked if I said things like that in front of a bunch of customers, and I wasn’t someone employed for my public relations / media skills. Whatever she says in private, she should know better than to be a racist nutter at work.

If it was anyone other than somebody Thatcher, the Daily Mail etc. would be trumpeting about how this was yet another example of how the BBC is terrible and their presenters are out of control, just like the thing with Jonathan Ross. It’s only because of the name that they’re supporting her.

Joe

You seem to be overly sensitive to the feelings of some in society yet prepared to trample on the feelings of others.

Come on then please explain what this means? He is prepared to trample on the feelings of people who like using outdated racist language?

You seem to be overly sensitive to the feelings of some in society yet prepared to trample on the feelings of others. This is clearly a double standard, caricatures and name calling is wrong to some sections of the community but not others,

I’m struggling to understand what you mean by this. It is not a double standard to say that racist language needs to be treated on a different level to name calling and mickey-pulling or taking the piss out of where you come from in the UK. To what “others” are you referring? Surely you’re not equating your treatment by Londoners to a black person being called a golliwog or worse, the “N-word” to which you so sensitively refer, you being called a “beanpole”, or me being called a “shortarse”.

clearly you are selective as to who gets these rights? I see a clear parallel using this approach, how ironic!

I don’t wish to select who gets rights and who doesn’t. We all have rights and responsibilities and deserve not to be abused for our ethnicity. Where’s the irony?

despite the fact that you failed to stand up for your convictions when a smack in the mouth may have been the outcome you are happy to support those who only stand up to racists when they in no physical danger

Believe me, I’ve stood up to racists when I’ve been in plenty physical danger – nothing that compares to facing a baying mob of white supremacists or anything along those lines, but I’ve experienced it, stood up for myself and then reported those involved. So you think the best tack is to just smack the guy in the mouth and get seven colours of sh1t beaten out of me for my trouble. Great, lets try that with all racists, it would soon learn ’em a lesson wouldn’t it – that the only way to deal witb their ignorance is to try beating them up instead of rising above it. Is that what you’re suggesting?

Furthermore you feel the latter is virtuous!

Let’s not get into patronising talk here.

I probably would have done the same as you in the first situation but not in the second.

I’ll let you have the last word.
I don’t quite understand what you mean, so explain to me what exactly what you would have done. And please, have another word or two. I’m far from finished.

I’m confused. We are not allowed to say anything about another person that they may not like. Correct????? Yeah. Therefore those of you calling some one else a racist are equally as bad.
What annoys me about the CT thing is that she was correct. How can that be wrong to say? Pathetic PC shite.

mattsccm – Member
I’m confused. We are not allowed to say anything about another person that they may not like. Correct?????

True IF it insulting about things they have no control over like their race. You cannot call someone the N word or Gollywog it is insulting well done.

Yeah. Therefore those of you calling some one else a racist are equally as bad.

You express opinions you can change them they can be challeneged they can be true or false etc etc unlike the case above. Why do you see being called a racist as bad given….

What annoys me about the CT thing is that she was correct.

what to say the word gollywog to a black person and refuse to apologise about it? So you are also a racist this is only a description of your views it is not insulting per se.

How can that be wrong to say? Pathetic PC shite.

see above.

I don’t personally think CT was being particularly ‘racist’; more, ignorant and naive.

If I saw that tennis player, I’d just think ‘wow, what wild hair that bloke’s got’. But then, I din’t have a Golliwog toy as a child. Maybe, if I did, I might make the same comparison.

I dunno. Seems like she made a fairly innocent comment that a more intelligent/enlightened person might not have made.
Has CT actually associated with many Black people, to realise such a comment might be seen as unacceptable? I dunno.

Is my comparing Paris Hilton to a childrens’ toy, based on an image of a white, blonde person, racist? I’ve heard the term ‘bimbo Barbie doll’ used in a derogatory way to describe a White, blonde woman, who was seen as a bit ‘dim’. Perhaps it is a racist term, as it is in fact being specific about a person’s racial characteristics, in a derogatory manner.

I don’t think I am particularly racist, though; I was merely using the comparison to make a point.

Does that make any sense?

Does that make any sense?

Yes – you’re a racist.

Next ?

Ah, what?

Bugger.

I blame my privileged yet sheltered upbringing… 🙁

My Daughter bought me a Golly a couple of months ago, because I was telling her how I used to have one as a kid that I cuddled in bed, so they still sell them.

I love them, so wouldn’t mind being compared to one.

OK they might have shortened the name, but that’s an era thing, doesn’t mean you mean offensive by using it.

Its like its suddenly taboo to call someone half-cast, even though thats the term we used when I was growing up. Its not derogatory, every day we are told that the language we have used for decades is suddenly offensive. Ainsley Harriot was saying it means someone is a cast off, what absolute rubbish! 🙄

If Carol was Asian or other non-white, would there be any furore if she had privately said ‘gollywog’? What gets my goat is the proliferation of derogative words in rap songs etc where the singers arent prosecuted either here or in the US. That disgusts me.

hora

With you on that one. Was once at Salford climbing wall. Me and my mate were the only ones in there. Playing over the speakers was some rap crap which seemed to be solely comprised of offensive misogynistic lyrics.

Considering how bloody pc uni’s are (banning otc from fresher’s fairs etc), I was pretty surprised. Mentioned it to the receptionist on the way out, who said gym users sometimes brought cds in to play. The speakers in the gym were broken, so they had silence and we had ‘she’s a sl*t and takes it up the a** whether she want to or not’ (or words to that effect) all evening.

Agree that rap has serious problems with sexism and homophobia and we can address those issues without being racist.
Yes Hora you can be racist if you are not white and I would be just as offended and moan just as much.

“The BBC said complaints over its handling of the situation had now reached 3,348, while the number of calls and emails supporting the corporation had doubled from 60 yesterday to 133 today.”

Hmmm.

I do find it funny that the situation where the bbc breaks with it’s historical record and refuses to support a humanitarian appeal where 1% or the poplulation of a state under siege has been slaughtered in two weeks, an argument on this forum regarding the pros and cons of the obligation under law to support said establishment, and this is what gets people hot under the collar?

Is this the dark ages?

I wonder what world events/government b@lls-ups have been buried by the level of news coverage devoted to this staggeringly unimportant event + with the addition of that unbelievably rare phenomena (slap me with a kipper, I’m stunned) snow in winter, most other things seem to have paled into insignificance.