Viewing 39 posts - 1 through 39 (of 39 total)
  • Car selling dilemma this time..selling with a "fault"
  • RopeyReignRider
    Free Member

    So, having got my new car I now have to sell my old one. It decided to break down on the way to visit the new car , after 3 years without a blip (it knows, it knows!).

    Anyway, I’ve spent the best part of £450 getting it fixed but there remains one very occasional “fault”.

    Basically if the passenger seat is moved a lot the dashboard temporarily shows an airbag warning light which goes off within a few seconds. The BMW dealership has diagnosed it as requiring a new airbag occupancy sensor and control unit costing £1k+

    My local independent specialist says it can fit a chip for £120 that bypasses the sensor and keeps the airbag activate at all times.

    So.. I don’t feel comfortable installing the chip then selling the car as although it should be fine in theory it will be modding a safety component with something not approved by BMW.

    If I advertise the car how should I explain the fault and what’s reasonable to reduce the price by (market value of the car between £6-7k)

    Ta

    suburbanreuben
    Free Member

    Are you sure the cable under the seat isn’t being stretched to it’s limit, causing a temporary disconnection?
    Or maybe the sensor is brushing up against some rucked up carpet or something?

    ernie67
    Full Member

    +1 for checking under the passenger seat

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Sold as seen, caveat emptor, n’est-ce pas?

    hels
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t worry too much – if the buyer seems nice tell them and let them best you down a bit on price. If they are a twonk who tries to offer you £5k as a starting price, break some other stuff.

    Frankenstein
    Free Member

    Tell the truth.

    That way the new owner and family is safe and you don’t get someone coming back complaining.

    br
    Free Member

    tbh I’d have p/ex’d for the new one… Why didn’t you?

    hora
    Free Member

    Get a automotive electrical engineer to look at it. Or a decent indie.

    The first thing I’d do is have a good look under the seat- look at the wiring, the condition- the connectors- disconnect then replug. Some main dealers ARE great- some are plug and play and wont (or arent allowed) to diagnose and do a simple fix.

    I took my car to a main dealers for a rattle around the exhaust (I had a very good hunch)- it took two new bolts on the heatshield but I imagine some places would say ‘new exhaust system sir’.

    globalti
    Free Member

    Sell the car with a clear description of the problem; to some buyers it’s not a major issue and they’ll just take the seat out and rectify the fault.

    Last year I sold my 2006 Roubaix with three witness cracks in the paint; I posted clear photos and explained that they had been there for the last 3000 miles and I’d been happy to continue riding the bike. Somebody else was just as happy and bought it for over £200.

    RopeyReignRider
    Free Member

    I’m fairly sure it’s not just the wiring as I’ve jiggled it about quite a bit – it does seem linked to the seat sensor itself.

    In retrospect I should have part ex’d but the dealer offered me a pitiful amount (and at that point I hadn’t had to spend £450 ish).

    Thing is , I don’t want to not mention it all as I’d be very annoyed indeed if I spent £6k on a car and a light came on within a week or two (which it probably will).

    Should I advertise it with the fault or just mention it when someone enquires?

    mikertroid
    Free Member

    Had the same issue on my old E46. Fixed by a £5 sensor bypass unit off eBay.

    Your local independent is getting a tidy profit for two minutes work!

    andyl
    Free Member

    Get a 2nd hand sensor?

    mikertroid
    Free Member

    If it’s an older model the seat sensor mat can degrade and the sensor bypass just tells the system someone is sat on the seat at all times so airbag will still deploy.

    legend
    Free Member

    That way the new owner and family is safe and you don’t get someone coming back complaining.

    Child’s, face.

    Although they can do all the complaining they want, the OP isn’t a dealer.

    globalti
    Free Member

    Get a second-hand seat?

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    webuyanycar?

    …and don’t mention the fault to them.

    If you advertise you need to mention it.

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    That £120 chip…

    Almost certainly a 10 pence resistor, your £119.90 probably adds a BMW shaped plug so they don’t have to break out the soldering iron to attach it.

    You unplug the seat occupancy sensor/side airbag if its built into the seat, and the resistor is connected to the wiring loom and fools the airbag ECU into thinking it can see the sensor/airbag.

    Its perfectly safe in terms of the system as a whole still being active, but it will disable what ever is built into the seat, (side airbag/seat belt pretensioner) Vans with twin passenger seats that are fitted with a single often have this sensor fitted to stop the missing seatbelt causing an error…and often available as an OEM part.

    If its going to disable anything more than a occupancy/seatbelt warning then I’d not be happy selling the car without declaring it as its clearly a safety issue…better to sell with the fault than disable it.

    Edit: If you advertise it, you don’t need to mention the fault, but if asked, you are legally obliged to to tell them.

    Any faults with the engine – No.
    Any faults at all – yeh the airbag light sometimes flickers when you adjust the passenger seat.

    andyl
    Free Member

    I am assuming the occupancy sensor enables the airbags and pretensioners if someone is in the seat as to save them going off if not needed to reduce repair costs. But I would also be concerned that it has a threshold limit so it also won’t enable the airbags if a child seat is fitted so spoofing it could mean someone in future doesnt know this problem and puts a child seat in.

    I’ve currently got the pretensioner wiring/connector fault on my driver seat which I need to sort as if I am in an accident and the airbag doesnt fire and I end up with injuries as a result it might affect any claim as I am knowingly continuing when the light has come on. Any bodge on the system could have similar or worse consequences.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    But I would also be concerned that it has a threshold limit so it also won’t enable the airbags if a child seat is fitted so spoofing it could mean someone in future doesnt know this problem and puts a child seat in.

    every car I’ve had with passenger airbags has a manual override for use when fitting a car seat.

    andyl
    Free Member

    every car I’ve had with passenger airbags has a manual override for use when fitting a car seat.

    Our estate does, our newer land rover doesnt.

    If I am having to load up the estate with equipment or DIY stuff and have the dog with me then I can turn the airbag off manually and she can sit on the seat. If I’m in the land rover then she has to be tucked down in the passenger footwell as I have no idea if sensors are fitted to stop the airbag or if they would be active or not. (I need to RTFM about fitting child seats in the front)

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Personally I’d never buy a car with an airbag fault. It might be a few pence to fix or it might be thousands. If it was a few pence then why didn’t the seller fix it?
    If it was my car and its something decent and not too old I’d stick it in a auction.

    hora
    Free Member

    webuyanycar?

    Possibly the OP doesn’t want to give the car away 😀

    RopeyReignRider
    Free Member

    Yep, so I’m familiar with how the chip works and how you can get uber cheap ones from eBay. It’s more that personally I don’t feel it’s right to fit it and then sell the car. If the buyer wants to do so then that’s their choice.

    Webuyanycar currently offering £5100 which they’d reduce significantly once they’ve noticed the odd scratch or three.

    Typically, I just went out to the car and tried my hardest to set the light off but couldn’t! I wiggled all the connectors, jumped up and down on the seat etc!

    Solo
    Free Member

    Sold as seen, caveat emptor, n’est-ce pas?

    Definitely not in this case (bit shocked you posted that, actually). Even more so if the vehicle has the feature to deactivate the passenger airbag when a child seat in placed in the front passenger seat!!!

    As others have suggested, if you’re not going to have the fault fixed prior to selling the vehicle, then declare the fault from the start and take the hit of an appropriate reduction on the sale price.
    Misleading someone about or omitting details of a fault with a safety device or system, isn’t an option, imo.
    For sure you wouldn’t want to be in the position of being the buyer, were the roles reversed.
    Do unto others, etc.

    lalazar
    Free Member

    Might need resetting with an OBD type tool/software.

    pushbikerider
    Free Member

    …I had a similar fault with the occupancy sensor in my 5 series. You can bypass the matt with a ‘chip’ off eBay for a few quid but the seatbelt light might still stay lit up as it’s always expecting someone to be sat there.
    You can either (carefully) glue the seat belt buckle sensor in place, or pop in a ‘blank’ seatbelt clip to turn it off.
    If it’s not doing it all the time I’d be tempted to sell it on with my fingers crossed that it doesn’t light up while they’re having a look at it. Although I might be a bit of a git…

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Possibly the OP doesn’t want to give the car away

    …or doesn’t want to accept the market value 😀

    I’m suprised at how much trouble people will go to get a few extra quid.

    Solo
    Free Member

    If it’s not doing it all the time I’d be tempted to sell it on with my fingers crossed that it doesn’t light up while they’re having a look at it.

    Unreal! I’d ask if you realize we’re discussing an AIRBAG fault.
    But, well, whatever.

    🙄

    agent007
    Free Member

    tbh I’d have p/ex’d for the new one… Why didn’t you?

    Because this way he wasn’t offered £££££’s less than the price the car would sell for privately. Never ceases to amaze me the number of people who part ex cars for thousands less than they could sell them for privately.

    Work colleague traded in his 4 yr old BMW 3 series for around £3,000 less than the same cars were going for on Autotrader. That’s the price of a new Orange 5. Asked why and he just said he didn’t want the hassle of selling privately. How much hassle would you be prepared to put up with for £3k in your back pocket?

    Personally I’ve never had any hassle selling my 5 previous cars privately. Take good photos, write an honest description, price sensibly and job done, weed out the time wasters on the phone, motivated buyer comes round and gives me cash (or transfer at the bank), sold as seen receipt signed by both parties, then leaves with the car. Simple.

    hels
    Free Member

    Reading this thread I think I must live very dangerously and close to the edge. A sensor light for the airbag on a car I am selling would take about 5 million years to get to the top of my Must Sort List. And that will be after I have tidied up my sock drawer.

    br
    Free Member

    Because this way he wasn’t offered £££££’s less than the price the car would sell for privately. Never ceases to amaze me the number of people who part ex cars for thousands less than they could sell them for privately.

    But in this case he’d a fault that he knew about, and is now going to (probably) get less.

    Solo
    Free Member

    hels – Member

    Reading this thread I think I must live very dangerously and close to the edge. A sensor light for the airbag on a car I am selling would take about 5 million years to get to the top of my Must Sort List

    Too busy to read the thread also and if you want to drive a vehicle that is warning you there may be a safety system fault, then feel free to nominate yourself as a candidate for this year’s Darwin award while you’re at it.

    Fixing the fault isn’t necessary. However, if the OP doesn’t fix the fault, all they should do is declare the fault to any prospective buyer, before a sale is agreed.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Turn the airbag off, sell it with the fault explaining it can be fixed on ebay for £10 of an indy for £120 as you’ve discovered – ensure the buyer understands not to put a kid in the front seat without it being fixed.

    Offer £120 off the advertised price immediately and use that as a measure of your apparent generosity when the buyer knocks you down some to negotiate that back toward the sale price.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    Our Mazda had the warning light for the airbag come one. On researching the fault was the poassenger seat occupancy sensor.
    Stripped the seat cover off the seat and the sensor mat has a split in on the electrical tracks.
    Off to scrapyard, give the scrappie a tenner for the whole seat, swapped the seat cushion over, job done. Airbags lights gone.

    *WHEN COCKING ABOUT WITH AIRBAGS, DISCONNECT THE BATTERY AND LEAVE IT FOR HALF AN HOUR BEFORE DOING ANY WORK. IT COULD BE YOUR FACE!*

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    Unreal! I’d ask if you realize we’re discussing an AIRBAG fault.
    But, well, whatever.

    If there is a fault, the light will come on. Its failsafe and very picky so if its intermittent, the light will come on to warn the new buyer if they haven’t had sense to ask if there are any faults.

    Much worse to disguise the fault and sell though as the new owner is none the wiser if it does go wrong/has been disabled.

    I had the airbag light come on in a Punto shortly after buying it…wasn’t worth the trip back once I realised I could fix it by cleaning the contacts on the passenger disable switch with a nail file, and £15 on an OBD laptop lead to reset the light.

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Usually when the airbag light is on it means the entire air bag system is disabled including the seat belt pre-tensioners as well on most cars.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Have you tried going to local dealers and selling to them?

    I sold a car last year doing this. Tried 3 independants. One dodgy ish back street type price, one a reputable dealer, and JCT600.

    They all offered within £300 of each other, and still £250 more than webuyanycar offered at their internet offer stage.

    All they did was walk around the car, checked tyres, asked for service history. Surely at that point the sensor would be working?

    Only after we handed ours over did we realise we still had a headrest in the house and the parcel shelf. We never heard back from JCT’s though.

    RopeyReignRider
    Free Member

    ^^ hmm that could be worth a try. I’m not sure if BMW franchises buy cars outright or just as trade ins tbh. Worth asking I guess!

    Sundayjumper
    Full Member

    Not exactly. It can be bypassed for £10 / £120. Actually fixing it probably means stripping the seat down and fitting a new sensor mat.

    Also, AFAIK, you can’t turn the airbag off on BMWs.

Viewing 39 posts - 1 through 39 (of 39 total)

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