I have a 98′ fez van… going to chop it in and get a new basic cheap motor for the other half…

5K is the budget, got to be 4 door. Depreciation is not really an issue (ie kia) as we will be keeping this for a long time.

we have looked at:

Suzuki Alto
Kia Picanto
Fiat Panda

Any other suggestions / recommendations…

well, I can recommend the panda, I’ve got a 100hp one 🙂 and it’s great, good fun, economical (especially the 1.2eco and 1.3 diesel). Unless you’re really limited on budget avoid the 1.1

you can get a bike in the back with both wheels off, or they’ve got the roof bar mounts ready to go, about £50 for the bars + whatever bike carrier you want.

Fiat Panda. Underated and unloved.

I had a Skoda Roomster on holiday, hated it and took it straight back. They scratched their heads and I spotted a battered (3month old) Panda sat in the yard. An absolute scream. Abit on stable over (wobbly) 130km/h but if its a local and commuting car. Kia will keep its value better I bet but it looks noddy’

VW Fox. Almost a polo which is almost a golf,

as mentioned above…. found some piccies

high and mighty!

hp / hora – I like the panda… looks good inside… but the 100bhp one is a little out my price range… it would prob be the 1.1, the problem being: it is guttless.

mikey – the fox is a good car… but 3 door only.

Toyota Aygo…??… Looks the part but the boot is tiny…

I’d take the Panda any day over the other choices. They’re very well built for a small, cheap car.

I had the Aygo (5dr)- took it to Germany via Hull and Amsterdam. Great engine but too many niggles for me. Panda 1.2 is better than the 1.1. Buy secondhand! You can pick up 06’s for circa 3k!!

The other choice (for me) would be a Swift. Considered a Panda on a lease deal?

hora – I hear what you are saying, I would never normally consider a new car … but as a long term investment a new car for 5k represents real value for money… 3 years of warranty and no MOT’s to worry about.

I will investigate how much the 1.2 panda is. the swift is a bit too much money (unfortunately)

With the aygo… what didn’t you like about it…

There was an advert in the paper over the weekend for Skoda Fabias – £5995 with scrappage discount. May be worth a look.

The Aygo:
The rubber bump-stop on lock to lock- it felt really cheap when you were executing a sharp lock-turn. GF didnt like the comfort of the passenger seat at all. The headlamps misted up. The stereo was appalling. The rear passenger window leaked. The plastic (eco) tyres meant it ‘squirmed’ for grip even at low speeds.
The plus’s- sounds great, stable on motorways, looks cheeky. Not sure how it will ‘age’ but I dont think it will be a Toyota-experience. Plus I do think its overpriced considering what you get for the money (its built and designed to a budget yet its priced more premuim IMO). I was looking for the 2CV of the 00’s when I bought it.

On a test drive you are seduced by its cheekiness (much like the old Smart fortwo). As soon as you have lived with it for a couple of days though and seen passed that brilliant little engine, then reality sinks in.

Why have you tippexed out your number plate hps?

force of habit when posting pics of my car online, no other reason. seems to be a common thing to do on a lot of car forums, I guess to a point it stops number plate cloning (not that 1000’s of people can;t read it everyday on my way too/from work) 🙂

but as a long term investment a new car for 5k represents real value for money… 3 years of warranty and no MOT’s to worry about.

How do you work that out? It’s still going to depreciate like a stone, and the final selling price is going to be ~1K lower than models pre-chop-in to reflect the buying costs. Sure you’ll save £150 in MOTs but thats a drop in the ocean. It’s not like you’ll buy it now and in 3 years time it’ll still be worth the same as pre-scrappage cars, all cars of the same model/rough age will be suffer as the market will be driven towards the lower prices?

Why are you looking at the Aygo and not the Peugeot 107 or Citroen C1. Exactly the same cars, built in the same factory aren’t they and cheaper than the Toyota?

I’m with coffeeking on this, the whole point of the scrappage scheme is to stimulate movement in the car sales market, not neccessarily to get people a better deal. If it has the side effect of getting old cars off the road/lowering average emmisions that’s just a bonus.

Sure a car that would have got you almost nothing will now get you £2000, but you can get a discount that big if not bigger off a lot of new cars anyway.

I also find this is a shame:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=19961

(the classics, not the standard vehicles)

We’re looking at something along these lines, the sums are quite simple if not guarenteed.

We have an S reg Peugeot 406 Estate, it does 25mpg, it’s getting more and more likely that it will require something expensive soon to keep it going so…lets budget £1k for repairs in the next 12 months, plus it currently costs £190 road tax a year.

If we take into account 200 miles a week travelling, the difference at £1ltr between the 406 and something like the Seat Ibiza Ecomotion is approx £40 per month or £500 a year in fuel alone.

So, that gives us £1700 a year, with any extra being what we’re prepared to pay for the pleasure of having a new, reliable car.

Currently looking at the Seat Ibiza Ecomotion.

Im not a big fan of the Morris Minor but I most certainly wouldnt want to see it disappear off our roads 🙁

hps – you’ve just got £500 of unpaid parking fines haven’t you? 🙂

Interestingly there are a couple of Kia Ceeds on Autotrader for less than £6000 (couple of years old, 20,000 miles). Given that these are sold new with a 100,000mile / 7-year warranty they may tick the boxes from a peace-of-mind perspective. Bit more car for the money than some of the above also.

coffeeking – yep… you do have a point… but the fez is on its knees, and will need some work doing to it… tax is another thing… and 2nd hand values dont really bother me as this will be a long term thing… The main thing is that, yes a 5K car will be worth f’all in 5-7 years time… I will just write the cost off… 5k for 10 years hassle free motoring seems a good deal to me…

dooosuk – good cars, but the 4 doors are just out of my price range…

But Nick, you’re looking at the worst case scenario there – heavy lumbering car to light eco car, the same could be said if you just bought a 2-3 year old economical small car, only you’d save even more. The only benefit you’re getting is that new car plastic intoxication and a guarantee for a couple of years.

I dont see any car being hassle free for 10 years, thats why the manufacturers warranty doesnt last that long. Especially not on the smaller, less well built motors.

Each to his own though!

coffeeking – true it is a fair point… but you have the X-factor to deal with…. eg. -quote the wife- ‘you buy loads of bikes and I buy nothing’ into the equation. The wife is super happy she is getting something new… as we always buy cheep / 2nd hand motors…

🙂 Fair enough, treat your/herself then 🙂 It’s only the justification I found odd, wanting and getting something new is irrational but strangely pleasing so I can understand it!

You can get a lot of low mileage, well build car for £5k in the second hand market. A nice Golf, Seat or Audi with under 20,000 miles and they will easily drive for +5 years.

Don’t jump on the new car band wagon before looking carefully at the second hand market.

Ooooooooo…

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/ALFA+ROMEO+GTV/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-42-231-240-4294966092-4294966829/advert.action?R=200916332764415&distance=38&postcode=M4+1BE&channel=CARS&make=ALFA+ROMEO&model=GTV&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=80000&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2004&vehicleRegLetter=53

Skoda Fabia CHEAP!

I’d avocate a Octavia. Never a Fabia. Sounds like a naff Italian wannabe stud.

labia surely?

Slightly OT/but talknig about cars for ladies….Talking to a girl today…..says she had a friends Lotus Elise onloan/driving it over a wedding weekend. She and her mate both agreed that it was awful with nowhere to put bits and bobs and wasnt very ‘comfy’.

WTF 😐

I’d avocate a Octavia. Never a Fabia. Sounds like a naff Italian wannabe stud.

So… for someone looking for a small car you’d recommend something completely different, partly on the basis that you didn’t like the name of the small car? Still, at least it means nobody mistakes your post for serious/helpful advice…

and I bet no mirror for ‘doing their lippy’

-m- I am a self-confessed lover of small cars. I beleive small cars should be almost agrarian (right?). I’m just not a fan of small VAG cars.

Agrarian did you say sir?

(Not this one) but the Dyanne was my first ever car 😀

I’m just not a fan of small VAG cars.

So you thought you’d recommend a bigger VAG car instead… 😯

Mate has just ordered a Kia under the scrappage scheme – be warned with your calculations – apparently they only have one “solid” colour which is now sold out, so you’d have to order the “metallic” paint option at another £400 on top of on-the-road price if you want it any time soon (i.e. this year).

Fiat 500 will hold its value well.

I’ve been mulling over the scrappage scheme for a few weeks leading up to it… tbh it’s a total gimmick, designed to get us mugs to consume more.

So much for the Government’s green credentials: scrapping older cars might sound like a good idea on the face of it, as removing higher polluting vehicles fron our roads is a good thing. However, it is widely knowledge that the pollutants and CO2 emissions resulting from the manufacture of a new car, even a small one, arefar more damaging than all of the emissions that car will make during its ENTIRE lifetime on the road.

Where is the Government on this? Keeping quiet unfortunately.

Furthermore, how is the scrappage scheme helping UK plc? Most new cars are made abroad – so your £ spent is helping Japanese workers, German, Korean etc. UK car dealers benefit and their sales guys get to keep their jobs (for now) but how much is the scrappage scheme really helping the UK economy?

Lastly, don’t load 100% of the annual servicing/repair costs of your old car into the financial equation and believe it’ll be ‘zero’ for your new car. Even new cars need servicing. And despite the manufacturer’s warranty, some parts will not be covered. Some parts just wear out.

Here’s my own calculation based on my car:

P reg ‘old’ car
25mpg / £198 road tax / cost approx £400 a year in repairs

If I bought a new car that returned DOUBLE the mpg (50mpg), then at a cost of £1.06 per litre I’d have to drive 21,000 miles before I’d recouped the £2,000.

My car is probably worth £1,000-£1,500 currently.

A new car (Fiat 500 etc) costs £9-£11k less £2k scrappage… BUT try buying one from a dealer without buying this extra, plus that extra, plus the other… add back £400+.

Depreciation on the new car will be higher over the next 3 years than my ‘old’ car (hey, it’s worth almost nothing already) and this alone pretty much cancels out the entire scrappage benefit.

I’d save a bit on road tax (approx £150/year), but the higher depreciation and the enormous extra mileage I’d have to drive to recoup the cost just doesn’t make it worthwhile.

The long and the short of it is that the most economical car for most of us to own is the one we already own. Certainly the greenest car to buy is none: drive the one you’ve already got. It’s been manufactured already. Think of it as recycling. Reusing your existing car IS recycling it. Scrapping it seals the eco-damage. Gosh, I’m coming across all eco-warrior – I’ve certainly never thought of myself as such, it’s just that thinking all this through carefully really makes one think this sh1t through…

If you fancy a new car the £2k scrappage is a bonus, but don’t try to justify it as a green benefit (unless you’re driving the Amoco Cadiz) and do calculate the financials accurately.