Unreasonable how?

Its £100 for 16 mins parking – so you really need someone to explain to you why this is unreasonable?

Fines have to be a deterrent, that’s the point.

No one seems to disagree what we are debating is whether the charges are reasonable or not
£100 is a fine to all but the law and you apparently.

Tall order for 13mins

Arguably irrelevant, he could have been gone for six hours.

Arguably irrelevant, he could have been gone for six hours.

It’s not a fine, it’s an alleged breach of contract.

How long the over stay was, well they can either take it to court, or see who blinks first.

Unreasonable how? Fines have to be a deterrent, that’s the point.

Surely by now you must be aware they aren’t legally allowed to issue fines ?

Its £100 for 16 mins parking

No, it’s a £100 fine for breaking the rules. That are clearly stated.

Surely by now you must be aware they aren’t legally allowed to issue fines ?

It’s a fine in practical terms, if not in legal terms.

It’s alleged breach of contract, assuming they can satisfy a court you entered into a contract, they’d have to prove £100 of damages.

Not according to previous posters.

Private companies can’t issue fines. Only the police or council can.

Private companies can’t issue fines. Only the police or council can.

As I said – technically not fines, but identical in practical purposes.

It’s a fine in practical terms, if not in legal terms.

That’s where the “unreasonable” bit comes in.
They aren’t allowed to be punitive.

They aren’t fines. So if they are asking for more than what they can show they have lost, then it’s unreasonable.

Where was the car parked? English and Scottish rules differ somewhat (primarily in relation to the registered keeper’s obligation to name the driver).

As I said – technically not fines, but identical in practical purposes.

Fines are punitive, punishment.

Private companies cannot punish, they can only claim reasonable loss due to a contractual breach.

It’s a fine in practical terms, if not in legal terms.

So it’s ok to act illegally if it’s “practical”? That’s going to come back to bite you, you know that right? (-:

Arguably irrelevant, he could have been gone for six hours.

They aren’t fines. So if they are asking for more than what they can show they have lost, then it’s unreasonable.

So why not have a sign that says:
“Parking fees:
First hour free.
Subsequent parking, £10/hour.”

At £60 for indefinite parking, that could actually come in handy if I ever need to leave my car near an airport for a three week holiday.

No, it’s a £100 fine for breaking the rules.

If it is a fine, rather than a charge, or recovering losses, then they haven’t a legal leg to stand on.

But they know what they are doing, the word “fine” will not appear on any signs, or notices, or letters, even if the language implies otherwise.

In these situations, Parking Eye are delibrately awful to deal with, skip over them and go straight to whoever has their name on the entrance of the car park, assuming this is a supermarket parking mistake. Nag, nag, nag and nag the PR and customer services of the shop. I had to do this with the Coop… you have to be making it clear that Parking Eye’s behaviour relflects on the brand of the shop. Be persistent.

As I said – technically not fines, but identical in practical purposes.

No it isn’t.

Lots here explaining how to avoid the fee or saying the PE are a bunch of aresholes to deal with. No doubt they are and knock yourselves trying to avoid it.

But if you were in charge what would you do that was reasonable? Assuming as a user you would want a car park that you can find a space you would want some measure by the the owners to prevent too much piss taking. What would you do and if it was a ‘fine’ system would you give in for every hard luck story?

ICBA reading all the above as this topic comes up again and again.

Parking Eye, like most parking firms, are basically legalised cowboys that make their money by fraudulently tricking people into coughing up for a contract they didn’t enter into to.

I’ve overturned all mine using guidance from the MSE forum.

Never pay the ******s – not least without a fight. They are scum.

I got a parking ticket from them in Penrith. We were on our way to Scotland for a sea kayaking trip and stopped to buy a weeks worth of grub for six of us and then eat in the cafe.

It was busy and 6 blokes shop very slowly…. So we overstayed.

I argued with Paking Eye but to no avail so I wrote to Morrison to say that I have used the same shop every year for 12 years for paddling trips (it’s close to the Motorway) and they cancelled the charge without arguing after I sent them a till receipt.

I should really shop in Scotland though.

But if you were in charge what would you do that was reasonable?

If it were my car park, I wouldn’t be charging six pounds twenty-five a minute in parking for any customer I’d want to come back again.

all this “private firms can’t issue fines” and “contract law” is basically irrelevant now, does nobody read prior posts?

It went to court and the supreme court ruled that it was not illegal[/u]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-34721126

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-press-summary.pdf

(ignore if you want. We don’t listen to ‘experts’ any more, after all)

Its £100 for 16 mins parking – so you really need someone to explain to you why this is unreasonable?

While I sort of agree; it’s not your opinion, it’s the opinion of the supreme court’s seven judges that counts. But it has to be high enough to be a deterrent without being unconscionable.

No, the legal ruling was to do with the amount charged, and nature of contract. It was still billed as a charge, not a fine.

If it were my car park, I wouldn’t be charging six pounds twenty-five a minute in parking for any customer I’d want to come back again.

So that’s what you wouldn’t do but what would you do?

look, we’re splitting hairs over terminology here. Whether it’s billed as a fine, or a charge, to all intents and purposes it’s a fine and the judges said that’s OK. You can no longer evade it because it’s a ‘penalty’ as opposed to a genuine loss incurred.

And whether it’s called a fine or not, the definition of a fine in the dictionary is “a sum of money paid as punishment for a crime or other offence” – which is what this is.

For all the legal ‘experts’ here an idea.

1. Drive out tomorrow to a Parking Eye car park.
2. Overstay but don’t take the p$ss say 20 minutes.
3. Contest the charge / fine (delete as appropriate) if you get a demand.
4. Fight the case through the courts and stick it to the man.
5. Come back on STW and tell us all about your magnificent legal expertise.
6. Get a knighthood for services to idiots who can’t read signs.

Delibrately break a contract? Why? What a stupid thing to suggest.
Not the same as mistakenly over staying in a car park, especially if busy in the shop that offers the parking.

For all the legal ‘experts’ here an idea.

1. Drive out tomorrow to a Parking Eye car park.
2. Overstay but don’t take the p$ss say 20 minutes.
3. Contest the charge / fine (delete as appropriate) if you get a demand.
4. Fight the case through the courts and stick it to the man.
5. Come back on STW and tell us all about your magnificent legal expertise.
6. Get a knighthood for services to idiots who can’t read signs.

Yup. Did that. (Well my OH did, although she didn’t even bother going to the court hearing)

Didn’t pay anything.

No knighthood though, I don’t think. Although it may have been sent to the wrong address?

But it’s like everything, we can’t have a solution that allows people to overstay in a shop a few minutes, because for everyone that does that there’s someone that just takes the piss and couldn’t give a shit until they get caught. Lowest common denominator, I’m afraid.

Back to my work situation. They are private spaces, we rent them 24-7-365. We don’t want to have to put bollards or chains or contract to a PPC, we just want them empty Mon-Fri 8-6. But a few people DGAS and as a result we have to consider a solution that means no-one can use them.

(to an question above – if we went bollards, for example, how do we make sure they’re left free at 8am Monday; by locking them Friday night as we leave. So the residents don’t get them out of hours anyway)

Yup. Did that. (Well my OH did, although she didn’t even bother going to the court hearing)

Didn’t pay anything.

When?

When?

Think it was august last year ?

and what did she contest on the grounds of?

Best if you read the my previous post above rather than me typing it all out again 😉

At £60 for indefinite parking, that could actually come in handy if I ever need to leave my car near an airport for a three week holiday.

You’ll probaby find it’s £100/day or something.

Speaking as someone who came on here and whined when I got two parking tickets, I think you’re all a bunch of whiners. If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. See also speeding tickets.

c&p would work 😉

But I assume she got off as a result of them having sent the correspondence to the wrong address and therefore she didn’t get a chance to appeal it through the channels properly rather than any overturn of the Beavis case.

If there’s a post-Beavis case where someone has overstayed, been ticketed, appealed to courts over the unfair contracts / not allowed to issue fines aspect (not bad signage, or incorrect use of cameras, or other technicalities – purely on the unfair contracts bit) – and won…… I’m sure the motoring organisations would like to hear about it.

@nealglover. He’s paid for the full argument and wants his money’s worth.

My OH got a CCJ because of a a Parking Eye “fine”

You (sorry she) really showed them. All sorted now so no harm done.

she didn’t get a chance to appeal it through the channels properly rather than any overturn of the Beavis case.

Indeed.

I was just responding to tonyf1’s challenge 🙂

You (sorry she) really showed them.

Well, she did really.

The court reversed the decision, She has no CCJ, she didn’t attend court, she paid no fine, she had no costs.

They on the other hand probably spent a fair bit of time and money (by comparison) for nothing.

and like everything, of course you can, you just have to want to. Cougar gave a nice sensible suggestion up there:

I guess you could ramp up the subsequent hours if necessary, but that sort of charging scheme would sort out the people who want to park all day without excessively penalising those who accidentally overstay.

Of course the reason they don’t do that is that the actual lowest common denominator here is Parking Eye and the other similar companies. What you have to realise is that they’re not in the least interested in preventing people from overstaying or preventing them from parking where they’re not supposed to. On the contrary if they put lots of effort into that they’d make less money – they’re really interested in getting people to overstay or park where they’re not supposed to, because that’s how their business model works. I can totally understand the issue you have with parking, but you should bear in mind the business model of such companies when employing them.

At £60 for indefinite parking, that could actually come in handy if I ever need to leave my car near an airport for a three week holiday.

Parking for a weekend in London a few years ago we realised that the charge for a lost ticket was less than it would be for the time we were planning on parking there for. It’s possible we didn’t take too much care of our tickets…

@nealglover. He’s paid for the full argument and wants his money’s worth.

😆

Neal, to be serious for a second the point is that now if you get a demand today and just ignore it in all likelihood you will get taken to court. The advice to just ignore it doesn’t work now.

Quoting a case where you never got a demand because of a mix up on addresses that leads to a CCJ isn’t a great example of winning a parking fine / demand / invoice is it?

Point of order.

No CCJ.

(Well only a temporary one, for a month, that was removed)

In the end, she won and paid no fine/fees etc.

But yes, I get your point

You just need to be more specific in your challenges. You didn’t mention which defence should be used to win the case 😆

A black swan defence … you didn’t even know you where challenging the fine / demand but still won. Brilliant 8)

aracer – that could work in a free for two hours but then you get a fine place, like a supermarket for example. Apart from – the firms would have no incentive to run a parking enforcement company for a tenner here and there particularly as most people would still have to be chased for the tenner. These firms (according to the courts) have a right to make a living as well as enforcing the parking. I don’t like them either but the question wasn’t whether you like PPC’s, but do they ever take anyone to court / how do you get off the fines?

And it still doesn’t work on private land. A PPC wouldn’t take it on for a tenner here and there, but even being in our spaces for a few minutes beyond the start of the working day messes us up; we have to go and park in the public car parks, 5-10 mins walk away. Do you put a couple of hours in, and hope someone clears off by then? But that means you can’t be involved in a meeting at the time that happens, or be running a prolonged experiment…… so you pay for all day, and so on.

Necessary evil, in my book.

@neal – not arguing, just keen to see if there are instances where Beavis has been overruled.