STW massive

Can an MOT garage fail a car on condition of pads/disks?

My car passed the brake force test but they have ‘failed’ it because the pads only have a few mm of meat left on them and the disks are corroded/weakened. This is their words.

I spoke to a mechanic I trust about this and he says that brake force test is the only applicable one to fail on – they could give advisories on brake pads and disks but not fail. He thought they were pulling a fast one but isn’t an MOT tester. He fitted some rear shock for me lately ( < 500 miles ) and said my pads and disks looked fine to him then.

The MOT garage didn’t want me to pay for the MOT (so no fail certificate..) and told me to come back tomorrow and they’d fit pads/disks and re-test and i’d pay then.

Should I be suspicious? Should I book in with another MOT place and see if it passes?

Should I book in with another MOT place and see if it passes fails on a different set of problems

This’ll help…

http://www.motester.co.uk/CarOwnersGuidetoTheMOT/WhatIsTested.aspx

I had a car sorn for 3 years, the pads and disks both corroded and it sounded like a shed. It past with flying colours with an advisory on the discs/pads.

The MOT garage didn’t want me to pay for the MOT (so no fail certificate..) and told me to come back tomorrow and they’d fit pads/disks and re-test and i’d pay then.

If you hadn’t said this part I’d have trusted them on balance. – Based on this. GO ELSEWHERE.

The reason being its all computerised now, once they started an MOT its on a timer system and logged etc. I imagine they did it/logged it as past and greasing you up for tomorrow.

they can fail based on available pad thickness;

http://mottester.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/brake-pad-wear-limit/

Someone at work had a disc shatter in his wheel when he slowed down coming off the motorway, made a right mess though he managed to control the car.

the lack of a fail certificate makes me a LOT suspicious

at the very least make sure you get all the worn parts – at least that way you have evidence

If the discs are less than the minimum width required by law, then it’s a fail.

Although i don’t know what the minimum is i’m sure it’s an only easy Google away.

Under vehicle checks

flexible brake pipes and any other metal brake pipes visible beneath the car are checked
discs and drums (external only) checked for condition and contamination
brake back plates and caliper securing devices are checked for condition and security

The MOT garage didn’t want me to pay for the MOT (so no fail certificate..) and told me to come back tomorrow and they’d fit pads/disks and re-test and i’d pay then.

smells like BS. i’ve always received a fail sheet, and a pass cert with a bill for repairs to make the car passable.

ff the discs are less than the minimum width required by law,

Really?

I very very much doubt that.

http://www.ukmot.com/mot_check.asp#information2

I believe they can fail the brakes if excessively worn.

And I should hope so too.

Your discs will have a minimum thickness on the edge (will also tell you on eurocarparts) and pads with only a few mm left are a no no too.

Can an MOT garage fail a car on condition of pads/disks?

Yes.

http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/mottestingmanualsandguides/mottestingmanualsandguides.htm

‘Excessively weakened by corrosion’.

Unless you have some exotic beast of a car it’s not going to be that expensive is it? Don’t mess with a critical safety item. If in doubt have them replaced.

Front or rear BTW?

Hth
Marko

disk thickness is fine
pads i’ve just been out and checked and there is > 3mm
the disks are a bit rusty but the braking surface is nice, shiny, not pitted or scored

The car is due for a service in about 1000 miles. If my mechanic says new disks/pads are needed I would go for it without question but that is because I trust him.

I reckon these guys are trying it on so will get a test somewhere else.

so next question – if it passes at 2nd garage can I tell 1st garage to whistle for the test money?
If it fails at both i’ll obviously pay both garages for the test.

rears

I think there is something about the discs having a lip on them that can lead to a mot fail.

Less than 3mm? I’d change them now.

It’s not just the braking surface that is the issue it’s the thickness of the disks. If they are vented is the braking surface worn evenly on each side of the vented inner – if you see what I mean?

Front or rear? What car?

Marko

so next question – if it passes at 2nd garage can I tell 1st garage to whistle for the test money?

Without a certificate pass or fail one they didn’t do one.

The MOT garage didn’t want me to pay for the MOT (so no fail certificate..)

Don’t you have a few days (14?) in which the re-test is free anyway? My bike failed on bearings, which were replaced the next day and the bike retested for free – it’s a partial re-test and they only test what failed the original test.
I’d ask for the fail certificate

sorry

you have 3mm of brake pad and your quibbling about changing them ……

WOW !

I changed the brakes on a friends car at the weekend. Passenger side outer pad had no pad material left. Inner pad had worn to about 3mm and broken up so only half of the pad left. Pads were the wrong ones and not sliding properly, discs fitted were the wrong thickness – 10 or 11mm from new instead of 13mm from new. Had worn down to 8mm instead of the 11mm minimum of the 13mm discs that should have been on there. When I tapped the driver side pads out (they were jammed in the yokes) the pad material fell off – and I didn’t tap them very hard.

The car was bought from a well known 2nd hand car place in Bristol a few years ago.

Remember as the pad gets low it gets weaker.

I am going to take my front tyres off as I have noticed them getting worse grip. I checked them and they ate 2.5-3mm so well above the legal limit – but their performance is degraded so off they come. I am also doing a full brake change before winter as I was advised the rear is getting low and I have spare front calipers so took advantage of the 35% off brake parts at ECP last week and am fitting new brakes all round with nicely stripped and re-rusted and treated calipers. Have gone for Pagid discs and pads and the quality over cheaper stuff is clearly evident. Most important parts of the car, along with steering so it’s not worth letting things get down to the ‘legal limit’.

When I tapped the driver side pads out… the pad material fell off – and I didn’t tap them very hard.

Didn’t know Superstar were in the automotive market too 😉

^ 😆

They were a brand I have seen lots of motor factors sell as ‘good quality’ – I am glad I have always avoided their parts now. I have refused filters from places that claimed they were ‘OEM’ quality. I always buy good quality filters and get them in bulk from AEP direct up in Scotland as they actually work out cheaper than cheap ones from motor factors.

It would be down to the Testers Discretion, but if they are badly corroded & pads worn they can be deemed as ‘Excessivley Weakened’

That has come straight from the MOT testers manual

I said > 3mm thick

I am questioning if they are trying to do me for disks and pads by implying an MOT fail

My last service sheet says pad thickness 6mm, (new pads are 12mm) the car has covered 1750 miles since then. The disks look fine to me.

No problem spending money on my car but I do have a problem with being ripped off which is what I think they are trying to do.

I’ll get a second opinion from another garage.

ask them for a formal fail certificate.

if another garage tests and says they are legal then complain to VOSA?

I think there is something about the discs having a lip on them that can lead to a mot fail.

I had the opposite – a lip on one pad leading to asymmetric brake pull, and not passing. The garage testing filed the lip off and put it though again for free – which was nice.

Without a certificate pass or fail one they didn’t do one.

Nail on the head – get the fail certificate and go elsewhere.

No certificate = no charge.

I’d turn up tho rather than phoning them to warn them your on your way – that way they can’t just bodge it thru and issue a fail.

Why don’t you get the mechanic you trust to change what the MOT place says to change then take it back for a re test? Then your’e not being ripped off as you say.
If my pads had 3mm on I’d have changed them last week anyway.
A lad I work with had a disc shatter when braking hard, they were well worn but he’s a tight wad & thought they’d go on forever.
Don’t skimp on brakes. (the ones on your car, not the one on here)

If you’ve used a 1/4 pad in less than 2k miles I’d suggest that the discs need replacing anyway, since you need to do the pads.

And 3mm on my MTB is ok, but 3mm on a car…

Pad material has to be under 1.5 mm to fall and the pad back plate can even be touching the the discs wear lip and it should still pass if the peformace still meets the test min level.. There is not VOSA tool for check pad wear min unlike tyre tread and looking at pads though the wheels at an angle can make pads look a lot lower than they are. . Same as discs there is no way to measure them for wear on the mot and I was told you would almost have to see the reinforcing webbing in the centre of a vented disc to fall it on ex wear. We where told that ex disc wear was one of the most abused thing in mot testing. I do not think I have ever failed a disc on wear and they can be totally rusty and still pass if the perforamce is still ok. A lot of stuff on the mot is changing or will be changed soon if they can get the law changed.
If it failed you should have a fail sheet as well as an emission print out.

Your discs will have a minimum thickness on the edge

Really? And you think the MOT centre measure this?

Disc thickness is not an MOT item.

It’s worth bearing in mind the retest rules.

If the car is left at the garage, and re-tested within 10 days, then you get a free partial re-test.

If you take it away, and re-test at the same garage with 10 days, then you have to pay a partial re-test fee.

So it could be that they’re genuinely trying to save you some money by allowing you to take the car back and still get a free retest.

If a car fails an mot test there will be a fail certificate. No fail certificate, not MOT test.
When our car failed this year due to leaking rear calipers and excessive balljoint play, I took the car away, replaced the parts and got it re-tested in the 2 weeks and all I paid for was the initial MOT test. The retest cost nothing.

3mm on pads I would change them anyway, my mechanic said discs would only fail if they were almost worn through.

Was it a proper garage or a fast fit place of a multiple chain, if it was a proper garage , try another one, if a fast fit, they make money on repairs and spares, sometimes not required.

As said above the tests are all logged on a live system and each test must take thirty minutes or it starts to raise suspicions that the garage is just having a quick check and passing the cars, therefore if they have used the system properly you should certainly have been issued a fail certificate! Also how old is the car? Id be surprised if the rear discs are that badly worn if it’s not done a LOT of mileage.

As others have mentioned, if they have carried out an MOT it will be logged. You can check on the DirectGov website here..

I was about to link to that Direct site as well, very revealing when you’ve bought a second hand car with a new MOT with no advisories, and then see that all the faults it has were picked up as advisories for the past three years.

If its not on that website as a fail just take it to an MOT only place, I use a local chain called JustMOTs, in the past few years I’ve only had one proper failure for front pads. Before this our cars seemed to fail every year. If you take it to a normal garage, of course they are going to find things that need fixing 🙁