njee20 - MemberEvery single one of my friends with scooters crashed it at some point, they're shockingly unstable IME, and even for the pathetic speeds they achieve are woefully underbraked.
Modern scooters are not underbraked - my 80cc 60 mph one had a set of brembo discs the size of those on full size bikes.
I suspect your friends were underskilled.
Motorcycles / scooters are not a particularly cheap option as decent training and protective kit does not come cheap
large418
Why not just let him use one of your cars when he is home from Uni as a named driver ?
He will get taken for a ride if he has the car at Uni, he will be the one running everyone around wasting his(your) money. Most of the students will not have cars. So their social life will revolve around not having one so he won't be left out. Also think of it from a safety point of view the most likely demographic to have an accident are young males with more than 2 people in the car. He will be in this demographic as a student with a car !!!
If he is anything like me or my mates, he will come home a fair bit at weekends initially, then you won't see him until the holidays (if your lucky) as he will have his own life as a grown up living away from home.
When he graduates he will be 21 more sensible and insurance will be lower. He will also have kept his driving hand in by using your cars when home.
The only answer is to run a banger, learn to fix it himself, and insure it 3rd party only. It was exactly the same when I was learning in '98, I paid more in insurance per year than I did for the car for the first 2 years. I had a classic 1.1l Pug 205 which cost next to naff all to run and fix. Sure it was a bit beaten up and some panels were different shades of blue, but it was a car and freedom and I loved it just the same.
Motorcycles / scooters are not a particularly cheap option as decent training and protective kit does not come cheap
But you have those skills for life though so not a waste of money like £2K on car insurance !!!
Only problem with a motorbike for all weather transport is in the winter you arrive everywhere smelling like a wet dog 
The only answer is to run a banger, learn to fix it himself, and insure it 3rd party only. It was exactly the same when I was learning in '98, I paid more in insurance per year than I did for the car for the first 2 years. I had a classic 1.1l Pug 205 which cost next to naff all to run and fix. Sure it was a bit beaten up and some panels were different shades of blue, but it was a car and freedom and I loved it just the same.
I remember my silver escort with the red bonnet, I loved that car
I can remember changing the starter motor on it, in the pouring rain in the gutter. My shoulder forming a dam against the water.
Happy days
Times when I have had the most money and the most nice things have not been when I have been the happiest
Motorbikes and scooters are fine as long as you have the proper training and ride with the ethos that literally everyone cannot see you but would try and kill you if they could. I rode for 20 years on and off without incident like that. As for stabilty I had a go on a mates Gilera Runner and it seemed fine stopped well and went ok too.
I was insured on my mum's car for many years (and strangely still am for some reason). With Direct Line, I built up my own no claims bonus so got my own policy when I came to need a car at a huge discount.
He doesn't NEED a car at 18, just would make life a lot easier. We live in a very rural area with no buses etc, and currently he borrows parents cars when he is home. Getting to and from college each week is a pain as we have to go and fetch him
Find him a place to live near the college? Probably cheaper and less hassle.
Modern scooters are not underbraked - my 80cc 60 mph one had a set of brembo discs the size of those on full size bikes.I suspect your friends were underskilled.
I'd agree (clearly they're fairly stable and ridden sensibly they're probably fine) but I suspect most new drivers are underskilled. All of my scooter owning mates crashed too, though were fortunately not too badly hurt.
Only problem with a motorbike for all weather transport is in the winter you arrive everywhere smelling like a wet dog
I never had a problem with smell (textile rather than leather jacket probably helped) loseing feeling in my extremities was more of a concern! I used to arrive at school and have to borrow some warm alcohol from the science labs to defrost the locks and get the key out of the ignition!
Motorcycles / scooters are not a particularly cheap option as decent training and protective kit does not come cheap
True, if you're in the North East I can give you a good recomendation for training, if your in the South East I can give you one to avoid!
Protective kit isn't extortionate, a good branded helmet costs less than some kids deem acceptable for a pair or trainers!
Crashing is a fact of life for some people, I made it through 2 years with nothing worse than droping it in a gravel car park in 10,000miles. My brother destroyed his twice in a year, and I know plenty of others who did the same, equaly plenty of people didn't crash. Something like a CG125 handles much better than a scooter though.
The PITA is for people like me with odd shaped heads who can try on every helmet in the Geroge White sale, pick the best fitting regardless of cost then have to bin it 3 hours later as it's still not big enough/the right shape! The helmet buying itself is an expensive* hobby!
*Anoyingly the only one thats ever fitted properly was a £20 chinese made MX one! And I'm not trusting my head in that!
ebygomm - Member
How does it work in other countries where the car is insured not the driver? Is insurance generally more expensive for everyone, but would work out cheaper for youngsters?...
In Oz 3 party insurance is part of the annual "rego" so young drivers can afford to run a car. Everyone pays the same. It does not cover damage to 3rd party property though, so they have to be careful not to ding Mercs & BMWs.
Times when I have had the most money and the most nice things have not been when I have been the happiest
+1.
I never had a problem with smell (textile rather than leather jacket probably helped) loseing feeling in my extremities was more of a concern! I used to arrive at school and have to borrow some warm alcohol from the science labs to defrost the locks and get the key out of the ignition!
You never had the problem 
The PITA is for people like me with odd shaped heads who can try on every helmet in the Geroge White sale, pick the best fitting regardless of cost then have to bin it 3 hours later as it's still not big enough/the right shape! The helmet buying itself is an expensive* hobby!
I take it you've looked at the AGV Tech Ti hats?
Bell may also still do custom fits, I've still got 2 I bought 8 or 9 years ago, they weren't that much more expensive
bazzer - MemberNo way in hell I'd be giving my son a motorbike at 17. I saw what happened to a good proportion of my mates who had them at that age...
Then should you trust him with a car ?
It's a fair point but again, based on my own experience, those same people who drove their motorbikes like nutters didn't drive cars in the same way. I reckon motorbikes encourage that behaviour (amongst teens at least) since even crap ones are very quick in comparison to crap cars.
It's a fair point but again, based on my own experience, those same people who drove their motorbikes like nutters didn't drive cars in the same way. I reckon motorbikes encourage that behaviour (amongst teens at least) since even crap ones are very quick in comparison to crap cars.
Also to be fair there is a bigger margin for error in a car. I have slid into a verge as a young driver in a car and drove away from it. So sometimes the consequences can be less, same accident on bike I would have at least been bruised.
To be honest apart from the first 15ft from the lights a learner legal 125 is pretty slow. I know as I rode my mates the other day. I remembered them being much faster
I ride with a completely different mindset now to when I was 17. I am not immortal any more
he is a student ... They are clearly given everything they own and therefore have no concept of value or responsibility
Not all of them. Some buy their own things. Perhaps that's a route to take?
First: make him ring round insurers himself
Second: make him get a job and save up for a car
he is a student ... They are clearly given everything they own and therefore have no concept of value or responsibilityNot all of them. Some buy their own things. Perhaps that's a route to take?
First: make him ring round insurers himself
Second: make him get a job and save up for a car
MikeT - I was referring to the Insurance company mindset, not my own.
Get him a part time Job so he can state an occupation on the insurance form (admin is a pretty good bet) and start paying toward the insurance too? Even 4 hours a week counts as a job...
The IAM has recently introduced a scheme where you can go for an assessment as a potential pre-cursor to taking the advanced test.
Cost is just £40 refundable against the cost of the 'Skill for Life' course (which includes the book and as many on road sessions as he'd need, plus the test for an incredible £99.
I did try soem AVG ones, didn't realise they were that customisable though, £400+ would blow a big hole in the bike budget though!
Really anoying not having the standard shape/size they obviously base their moulds on. It's been a year so probably time to go back to George Whites and try on every helmet in the shop again, or maybe head to the NEC.
Get an old-ish one, insure as a classic. Thats what I did with my first car, it was a Mk2 Golf GTi and cost £500, would have cost about £2000 otherwise.
I just insured VW Corrado VR6 (group 18) for £200 that way, quoted about £1000 for "normal" insurance.
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