Hi all,
A bit of background info, I bought a Toyota Land Cruiser back in Feb this year from a Toyota main dealer, 10 years old, low milage, full Toyota service history. It had a couple of niggles that were fixed under warranty one of which being a slight judder/shaking when stationary at traffic lights, this was resolved by replacing the back disks and pads.

Now I took it to the main dealer yesterday for a full service (just to keep a full Toyota history), I got a call saying that the lower callipers of the front brakes were seized off and not working. When questioned they were very unconvincing especially when I mentioned the previous warranty work on the brakes and why this hadn’t been spotted before? I also asked if the pads were worn at the top more than the bottom, they said not. Surely they would be if the lower wasn’t working? I also pointed out I haven’t noticed any deterioration of braking. It stops very well for a heavy beast!
I collected the car and took it to a garage where I get the van and the family cars mot’d etc. He checked the brakes and tested it on the rollers and said there was nothing wrong with it! I rang the main dealer and confronted them with this information, they then called me back later and stood by their guns and invited me to go in and they would strip the brakes down and show me there was a problem. I will go.

Now my questions are,
a) What do you think? would you believe them?
b) Can this happen? Both lower callipers seize off?
c) I would notice surely?
d) How much work would they need to do before they can prove it or not? i.e. could they easily pull the wool over my eyes?

I’d appreciate any other of your thoughts on this.
Cheers.

a slight judder/shaking when stationary at traffic lights, this was resolved by replacing the back disks and pads.

Wot?

Re the calipers – what do you mean? Are they twin piston or something*? If so, how do they know if one is working and one not?

If I wanted to check, I’d have the wheel off, then remove the bolts that let you remove the pads and then watch the pistons move. Would take a garage about 5 minutes, me probably 15 on the drive.

* checked on the internet, yes they are twin pot.

Sliding callipers can sieze top, bottom or both slide pins. Shows its self in a few ways pads wearing uneven inner more than the outer. On brake rollers it may seem fine or have a lower efficiency. May even not fully release so drag a pad. All depends on how sized bits are. Fairly simple to do a quick check jack up remove wheel and attempt to move the calliper on its sliders by hand. Should move freely side to side by a couple of mm.

Why are you interested in main dealers on a 10 yr old Toyota landcruiser?
These things are built for a bit of rufty tufty and you’re worried about a main dealer saying the lower piston is off.

Concur with both of the above. Dealer prob right, and can seize and seem normal ish to you, but if they have and then get sorted, they will have improved.

If it’s a 4 piston calliper just get someone to press the brake while you watch the pistons.

OK Parkesie cheers, so it looks like they could well be right. So if I can manage to check them are they easily unseized? Or is it new/recon part time?

When the lower sliders on our freelander seized (common fault) the pad wore down pretty evenly. Caught it with <1mm of pad left despite it passing the MOT a few months earlier.

I don’t get the judder/shaking at lights though as that doesnt seem to make sense.

As for repair do they mean the lower piston or lower slider? “lower caliper” doesnt make sense.

Sliders should be an easy fix after the messing getting a seized one out. Caliper itsef can be rebuilt with new seals and possibly new piston but will be a claiper off job and messy. I used to put a block of wood in the caliper and use my track pump to blow out the pistons against the wood so I could then remove them easier when rebuilding my 306 GTI calipers.

The judder/shake has gone now. They said the rear disks were warped so they replaced them and the pads.

4 piston fixed calipers on the front as far as i can see.
Toyota used to have a rigid policy on brake servicing/fluid and even seals – so
full history should show that being done . If the calipers were half full of water then the lower pistons could seize hard enough to not work , but as you
say there should be evidence with uneven pad wear and also imbalanced brakes as the now two pot brakes have half the piston area.
wheel off pistons pushed back – should see them move – or feeler gauge between piston and pad should not be clamped.

Sorry just checked they say that both Lower Calliper PISTONS are seized.

The judder/shake has gone now. They said the rear disks were warped so they replaced them and the pads.

But stationary at lights means “warped” disc is not turning. If it’s an auto then it could possibly be trying to creep as the brakes are not clamping properly.

If the calipers were half full of water then the lower pistons could seize hard enough to not work

This could be it finishthat I know the car had done very few miles for a couple of years I bet that’s exactly what’s happened.
AndyL the creep could have been caused by the front calliper pistons being seized?

Seized pistons usually result in new pistons and seals minimum often a new or refurbished calliper depending on the amount and location of the corrosion.

X trails used to always seize the lower pistons often you’d only find out when replacing pads as they wouldn’t retract.

They corroded an swell so push out but not return.

I’d just put some exchange callipers on it

Roller brake test means **** all.

The landy went through the mot brake test (but failed on almost all steel items being corroded) before the big strip down.

The front brakes had 6 out of 8 pistons siezed solid and one leaking rear wheel cylinder. Getting those siezed pistons out was fun. Involving a pillar drill – an m14bottom tap and a bolt.