A beard or my future health?

I was talking to our asbestos guy about this the other day. He’s currently fit testing himself twice a day while he grows a beard. So far, it seems that a couple of days of stubble are a problem but after that, the masks we use become functional again. Once he’s got enough evidence, he’s planning on taking it to the hse for review.

If your place is serious, they should be offering a fit test, if they’re not, then they’re only paying it lip service anyway.

They are providing safety equipment that works for a majority is appropriate, unless the employee has a disability, religious reasons or just medical reason then they aren’t obligated to provide an alternative.

It (the law) doesn’t work like that – the PPE has to be appropriate to the individual. A ‘one size fits all’ approach is not acceptable. Unless there’s something in the contract of employment about appearance or PPE compatibility (some places have this), the employer has to take the individual as they find him/her and make appropriate arrangements.

+1

Our fire brigade used to have this policy. If you couldn’t get a seal on a BA face mask then you didn’t get in.
Now though, if the standard mask doesn’t fit you get a personal issue mask.

If they’re insisting that you shave and won’t stump up for the extra PPE get them to sort you out with a STW approved shaving kit, or maybe stop off at the local Turkish barber every morning and put it on expenses.

It’s protecting against dust from sanding but all the equipment is vacuum attached so dust is very minimal.
Also use isocyanate products and those employees have full face air fed masks. We had a meeting a few months back saying we all needed to wear full face air fed masks if you weren’t clean shaven.
Now they have said those are too expensive so we all have to shave

As its a change to your terms and conditions its a different situation that joining a workforce where being clean shaven is a requirement.

What does your union say? You need an opinion from a real expert not just armchair experts

The only allowance the employer needs to make is for those who don’t shave for religious reasons.

They don’t actually have to even do that. A bit like you can write a job spec that says “must be able to lift and carry 25kg up stairs” that intrinsically discriminates against wheelchair users. You can state that beards aren’t allowed if face masks are to be worn.

I’ve no idea how it would work if you refused to shave off an existing beard if the requirement is brought in when you already work there. I suppose if you went down the medical “I get a rash from shaving” route they could eventually get rid of you by saying you’re not fit for the work and no suitable roles were available. Either way if a risk assessment’s been done properly (which it sounds like it has) then they can’t let you work on Monday doing that job. Whether they can send you home without pay is a different issue.

Seriously though, beard Vs your health? Just shave. If you want to prove manliness and/or be hipster, learn to use a cutthroat.

Source:
H&S engineer, formerly bearded before starting a job where masks had to be worn.

It’s not that appropriate HSE is available, but rather that they’re too tight to pay for it.

If you sacked a Muslim man because he refused to shave his beard for religious reasons when perfectly acceptable HSE was available, well, I wouldn’t want to be part of your HR department.

Buy a false beard.
Shave.
Wear the false beard unless instead wearing the mask????
Profit.

these;
http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Personal-Protective-Equipment/Powered-Supplied-Air-Respirators/Safety/Worker-Health-Safety/Hoods-Soft-Headtops/?N=5002385+8709322+8711017+8711405+8720539+8720547+8720779+3294857497&rt=r3#Nao24

plus either a waste worn battery powered filter/air pump thingy or a main airline filter set.

If the company wont stump up for these then find a company that isnt such a bunch of tightarses

If you sacked a Muslim man because he refused to shave his beard for religious reasons when perfectly acceptable HSE was available, well, I wouldn’t want to be part of your HR department.

Fair point.

Although the OP’s is a more nuanced case than some as it’s not emergency equipment therefore you could argue they could provide a different mask that’s not so easy to get on, but does seal around the neck rather than face and/or positive pressure breathing apparatus. The religious rights are trumped on some petrochemical sites handling toxic gasses (H2S, CN, etc), if you turned up with a beard you’d not be allowed on site, no ifs no buts. It’s a danger to you, and the person who tries to drag your limp corpse to safety when you pass out.

OTOH the OP’s objection to being told to shave isn’t religious so the point is moot.

If the company wont stump up for these then find a company that isnt such a bunch of tightarses

Still wouldn’t seal against a beard though?

It’s protecting against dust from sanding but all the equipment is vacuum attached so dust is very minimal.

Assuming it’s wood sawdust, then it sounds like your employer is being responsible. As per this HSE page, inhaled wood dust has the potential to cause cancer and occupational asthma (and the latter is not something that would just mean using an inhaler: it means becoming permanently sensitised to the substance, such that you would have to stop working in that type of environment and suffer permanent ill health). The fact that the Local Exhaust Ventilation is reducing the dust quantities, does not mean that RPE is not necessary. As the HSE document indicates, where the risks are so serious as cancer and occupational asthma, then the risks must be reduced to a level “as low as reasonably practical”, so RPE in addition may well be necessary (but that means proper RPE with a filter/cartridge, not a cheap paper disposable).

As others have said, RPE should be fit tested to assess its effectiveness. There is also a bigger picture regarding what should be done, what happens in practice, and what should be prioritised.

According to the law (COSHH), there are legal limits for the maximum amount of wood dust to which you should be exposed, both long term (averaged over an 8 hour shift) and short term (15 minutes), the latter because a small amount but concentrated in a very short time may be more likely to trigger a sensitisation etc. than the same or even greater amount spread over a lengthy period. Employers are required to ensure that the exposure is below those limits, and to reduce the exposure even further where “as low as reasonably practical” also applies.

This means that the employer should arrange for measuring of the exposure levels. This should be done by an occupational hygienist who would take samples of the air in the workshop, preferably by getting some workers to wear a portable sampling device (to measure what the worker typically breathes in during the day). Analysis of the samples will tell the employer if they are above or below the statutory limits.

RPE will have a ‘protection factor’, so it possible to calculate by how much the RPE further reduces your exposure from the level measured by the portable sampling device.

The problem with all this is that where cancer and occupational asthma are concerned, there are no known precise safe limits or cut off points, hence the requirement to go as low as reasonably practical.

The reality is that many smaller businesses will not get this sort of sampling done, and will jump straight to introducing the controls without measuring. That is not necessarily the end of the world: I have sat in a room where the then chairman of the scientific committee which sets the legal maximium exposure limits, made it very clear that that the priority should be spending money on controls more than measuring (not saying don’t measure, but that controls should be the priority).

big yim, it sounds like your employers are being reasonable, and taking the line that not providing full air fed masks only because someone does not want to shave is probably justified (although if I were the safety manager, I would take the view that respirator masks are a poor control due to the unreliability of the fit, the discomfort, and the liklihood that people would take them off – so I would simply go for air fed full face masks, which would save wasting money on fit testing). I think the onus initially is therefore on you to try to cure the shaving rash problem (and yes, a traditional razor and soap with a bit of practice to get the technique right or an electric razor, instead of a multi-blade and aerosol foam, might be the answer). If despite your own best efforts you cannot cure the rash, then I would approach your employer and explain the problem, point out what you have done to try to fix it yourself, and ask if they will provide an air fed mask. Hopefully they would agree, but if not I would probably buy my own.

HSE measures should be “As a far as reasonably practicable” What is the expense against employees health and well being.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/healthrisks/hazardous-substances/isocyanates.htm

Respiratory Protective Equipment (RPE) – you may need RPE where ventilation does not provide enough control – particularly in enclosed spaces if you are creating an aerosol (eg by some rollering work) or using products with significant amounts of TDI. Wearers should be fit tested where needed. It is particularly important to select the correct filter. For example, P3 particulate filters provide protection against spray mist but do not protect you from vapours. You will need the right gas / vapour filter for these. Change them at suitable intervals. Check with your supplier if you’re not sure.

Union?

The religious rights are trumped on some petrochemical sites handling toxic gasses (H2S, CN, etc), if you turned up with a beard you’d not be allowed on site, no ifs no buts. It’s a danger to you, and the person who tries to drag your limp corpse to safety when you pass out.

TBH, I think religious exemption for H&S law should be done away with anyway. It exists for a reason – to keep people safe – and should apply to all regardless of “beliefs.” Your faith in your god won’t do you much good when you’re lying on the floor with your skull in several pieces, though I suppose it’ll provide some comfort that you’re going to a better place.

But that’s another discussion.

TBH, I think religious exemption for H&S law should be done away with anyway. It exists for a reason – to keep people safe – and should apply to all regardless of “beliefs.” Your faith in your god won’t do you much good when you’re lying on the floor with your skull in several pieces, though I suppose it’ll provide some comfort that you’re going to a better place.

But that’s another discussion.

I think the only exemption in law is Sikh turbans and hard hats. And even then it can be subject to a risk assessment (i.e. they may not be allowed to work in areas with a higher risk of dropped objects but may be allowed onsite in other roles). There are no other religious (or otherwise) exemptions.

Although the exemption is that turban wearer is allowed to not wear a hard hat on site. In all other cases you can’t not wear the required PPE and you’re allowed to not employ someone on the basis that they can’t/won’t wear it (i.e. you can refuse to employ a Sikh, Muslim, Orthodox Jew, Amish, if they don’t shave for religious reasons).

It’s part of my role to be a member of the nuclear emergency team and as such I’m supposed to be clean shaven in the event of having to wear breathing apparatus.
In reality I’m a scruff but have a razor available if required.

If I’m right we may well be doing the same job on sister sites. 4755?

It would also appear we have a similar policy. Don’t tell anyone I’m a BA instructor. (oops)

TINAS – they actually have a “hard hat” specifically designed for turban wearers now that is out into the top part of it as they finalise the wrapping.
No excuse.
Back to the OP – for me it comes across as a blanket “this is what we are doing like it or walk” scenario.
Go in tomorrow, be prepared to shave BUT push for the COSHH, RaMS, data, etc to show they have done the sums correctly rather than bulk buying from Arco.
I know what my money is on them having done.

I’m really tempted to shave but leave a Hitler moustache. Not sure this would really help though

I work in environments which require a face mask.
Sometimes full face ,sometimes not.
We have mask fit tests and are not allowed to work in the “environments” if you fail the test. Or have a beard.
I’m a mercenary ,pay me and I’ll shave.

Through my PhD and subsequent work I have been working with various nanomaterials and spraying nasty solvents and isocyanates. In the lab it all gets handled in glove boxes or sprayed in fume cabinets but I would still wear respirators. The only time I have needed a full air fed mask was when spraying lacquer in a proper booth as it was a large part, when spraying in the fume cabinet common sense on the risk assessment prevailed so a conventional mask (but top of the line) was seen as good enough. We also had a full face mask with the highest level of filters in an emergency kit ready for anyone responding to a lab incident to use.

At the moment I am desk bound producing reports, managing projects etc and have a semi beard. I hate shaving as I get a rash and have to choose the right creams but if I was back in the lab I wouldn’t hesitate to make sure the masks I used fitted correctly.

I guess you could always slather your face with Vaseline where the mask sits but I suspect shaving might be easier!

Just in case it helps OP. I use a trimmer to go down to 0.4mm and it’s not much longer than an electric shave. I have trimmed several days in a row without irritation and like you suffer from very severe shaving rash when I wet shave.

I would be surprised if 0.4mm was an issue – but someone may know better…?

Jamj1974 they’ve said that’s too long. That’s the annoying part

I still think as this is a change of policy enforcing it on anyone with a full beard will be tricky when alternatives are out there to solve the issue

<since nobody else has done it>

I used to have a lovely moustache but my boss made me shave it off. He said it tickled.

I don’t think you’re allowed a beard or stubble if you work at an Aldi supermarket.
I’m not sure they could force that on sheikh employees though.

I wonder if any sheikhs work in any Aldis? Not this one, I doubt he has ever needed to wear a dust mask either.

just shave where the mask touches? 😉

I always try to make Ppe the last resort, better dust extraction and damping down as much as possible.

Update on the situation.
Didnt have a shave as ordered on Friday and neither did about 5 other lads. No one got sent home but we all got called in the office one by one with the manager.
Can I buy my own mask? no
Will you offer an alternative? No
Can I wear my airfed mask? No
If I shave every day then my neck will come up in a big rash. Not their problem apparently

Basically said I get 2 weeks then have to be clean shaven, then after that get sent home without pay