Or for that matter ignore anything else in the road traffic act?
I ride through a business park on the way home which claims the roads are private, in so much that they have their own security guards to move people on who loiter on footpaths or park on the roads, however it's generally used for through traffic, and to all intents and purposes looks like a public road.

So the question is, what roads do traffic laws apply to? I'm pretty sure they don't apply in the driveway of my house (though I could be wrong), but do they apply to private roads that the public have access to?

If it's a truly private road – I think you can do whatever you like pretty much.

EDIT: But presumably you need the permission of the land owner?

I think they apply to any road that people treat as a road. Even B&Q car parks.

dunno, but back home out of hours, I treated the driveway as a bit of a racetrack on the motorbike, obviously I was more sensible in my parents MG 🙄

Industrial estates, I guess it depends if the roads are addopted or not? If they are then normal rules apply, if they'r private then whatever rules they set apply (speed limits, tolls, access, etc etc etc)

Depends if it has been adopted by the local authorities or not.

I may be wrong but don't road traffic laws only apply to adopted / public roads that are maintained by the public purse?

Presumably you can do what you want? Goodwood festival of Speed springs to mind? Any race track for that matter…

Just bear in mind your insurance would probably cover you for crashing on private land (for example B&Q car park, National Trust estate etc). But would probably not cover you for mowing down grannies at 90mph on a nursing home driveway.

Depends if it has been adopted by the local authorities or not.

I don't think so.

I think the road traffic acts apply to any road that the public have access to, whether they be adopted by the council or running over private land.

They do not apply to private land that the public has no access to eg your driveway (even if it is 3 miles long) or a motor racing circuit or whatever.

Don't pc plod spend time on the bridges above the M6 Toll (private) road, waving the camera at the great and good who follow the 'its a private road' mentality, dishing out tickets accordingly?

Why do you think all chavs congregate in McD's car park, they know the law can't do them for doing donuts, so lets hope the McD's donuts do for them in the long run 😉

Any race track for that matter…

Race tracks aren't roads.

Whats the OP's issue?

Ohh and I wouldnt play on NT land, they caught some chav's back home "drifting" by blocking the access roads with a Sanderson (not the lightweight 853 variety) and the works landrover. Dread to think of the mess one of those could do to your bumpers…………

If it has public access it's treated as normal IIRC. And kids don't get away with doing duffnuts on McDs car park. And they can now have their cars confiscated.

When I worked on Foulness island the MOD Plod used to set up speed traps but all they could do was ban you from driving in to work for a couple of weeks. If you were going to the pub on the Island you could drive back pissed if you wanted to up until the Police gate and then leave your car there and walk off and they could do nothing. The road was a public right of way as there was a village on the Island but you had to show good reason to be using it. If you did want to go to the pub in the evening you would have to call them first and then the police would verify it when you went through the gate. All very strange.

I got caught a few years ago on a dock road
private road, not adopted, maintained by port authority but the police are explicitly allowed in to apply normal laws

I was in a call out as the computer systems had crashed
Court appearance, got 6 points and £350 fine 🙁

port security do their own speed traps too, 3 strikes and your out!

A road is defined as:
• Anyway, other than a water way
• Over which the public have right of access by whatever means
• Whether subject to toll or not
• And includes the roads verges, and any bridges ( permanent or temporary )
• Or tunnel through which the road passes
• And any reference to a road includes parts thereof

( Public road is one which the road authority has a duty to maintain… adopted I suppose. )

So basically, plod can pull you on a normal road as you would imagine it, and also in places such as garage forecourts, commercial shop parks , M6 Toll , etc etc where public have general access.

So I would imagine in the scenario of the original poster, yeah,it seems conceivable you could get done if there is some form of right of way for the public.

a contrary question – the estate I work on has large 5s in a circle painted on the roadways to designate the speed limit, but everyone drives around at 30+ mph as normal. Does a private speed limit have any validity?

The 3rd paragraph seems to add weight to the case for the law applying to private roads

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069869

It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks). In most cases, the law will apply to them and there may be additional rules for particular paths or ways. Some serious driving offences, including drink-driving offences, also apply to all public places, for example public car parks.

Fisha

You are very accurate in your Road Traffic Definition of "a road"!

There also exists a definition of a public road – much shorter "a road which a local authority has a duty to maintain" ie your car needs to be taxed to be on it.

There are numerous stated cases to this effect, suffice to say if a road says it's private but there is nothing to prevent you from entering the "private" area – like a fence or barrier then it is still a road. Remember that the definition says the public have a right of access, which includes pedestrians, cyclists & horseriders.

Private tracks where you can do whatever speed you like, race etc are fenced off and you generally have to pay for entry etc.

There is a road from the A82 Loch Lomond over to Faslane which is (or was) a military road on which it was rumoured there was no enforeable speed limit. It attracted all sort of speed freaks who used to horse along it. However the road was constructed for heavy duty military vehicles and had no camber, causing all sorts of mayhem & crashes. Despite the lack of speed limit (which I believe has been rectified and there is now an enforceable speed limit) there was still the offences of drivng without due care and dangerous driving which could have been used a sort of catch-all for anything really outrageous.

Don't do anything you wouldn't do on a public road unless you are safely enclosed somewhere where others don't have proper access.

Speed limits have to be enforceable by the authority of the limit set on them by the roads authority. Otherwise, there is no authority to get you done.

But remember, crazy driving which in the circumstances is reckless or dangerous, on a road even if private, but to where there is public access, is still enforceable.

Shouldn't Smee answer that? Isn't he a driving instructor?

apparently not http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/Article.aspx/1316449

apparently not

Apparently not what? He wasn't done for breaking the 5mph limit, but for driving dangerously which is a whole different issue. 5mph limits certainly aren't enforceable by the police.

I got warned by the site security at my old work for doing 18 and a bit times the speed limit, 93 in a 5mph zone They had a radar gun and everything.

A supermarket car park is also not a private road.

Hairychested – I did.

Fisha's post is very accurate.

My twopennuth is that private roads can have local byelaws or local traffic regulation orders attached (that are not always obvious, but some are very old legislation) – Nottingham's Victoria Embankment springs to mind, which is 20mph limit. So yes, Simon they do often have validity (not always mind).

Though there may not be an enforcable speed limit on some private roads, speed can also be used as evidence in Death by dangerous, Reckless, inconsiderate & careless driving. I'm quite certain that you can also be prosecuted for these offences when taking part in a motoring event, such as circuit racing, rallying, hill climbs etc.

You also stand to have your car seized under section 59 Police reform act, which is used regularly for boy racer and Maxpower meets – even on McD's car park.

If you apply the legislation to "anywhere to which the public have access, on payment or otherwise" – you can't fall too foul of the law. In other words use common sense.

A supermarket car park is also not a private road.

You sure ?

How come the zebra crossing in my Tesco's looks different then ?

I got warned by the site security at my old work for doing 18 and a bit times the speed limit, 93 in a 5mph zone

Site security is a different matter – you can get banned from my site for breaking the 20mph limit.

You sure ?

Yes thanks, it's a public access road privately owned.

How come the zebra crossing in my Tesco's looks different then ?

It's not a highway.

it's a public access road privately owned.

You sure ?

The public did not have right of access before my local Tesco was built. And I can't see why the public would have right of access in the event of Tesco closing down.

Are you saying all private parking belonging to shops are ' public access roads ' ?

The public did not have right of access before my local Tesco was built. And I can't see why the public would have right of access in the event of Tesco closing down.

Maybe the conditions changed when they built it.

Are you saying all private parking belonging to shops are ' public access roads ' ?

As far as I'm aware otherwise you'd be trespassing surely?

otherwise you'd be trespassing surely?

Not at all. You are allowed to use a private road with the owners permission.

Then it would become public access, maybe not the right terminology but it's not a private road as such and becomes a public place a public place is covered by the Road Traffic Act.

it would become public access, maybe not the right terminology but it's not a private road

So why single out supermarkets then ?

Because according to you, all roads which the public have access to, aren't private. Which presumably includes the road through the business park which the OP mentioned.

😕

So why single out supermarkets then ?

Because that's what was mentioned in the newspaper quoted above.

Because according to you, all roads which the public have access to, aren't private. Which presumably includes the road through the business park which the OP mentioned.

Not according to me, according to the Road Traffic Act.

Not according to me, according to the Road Traffic Act.

Which one ?

As far as I can see, all Road Traffic Acts recognise the existence of 'private roads' – whether or not they are also recognised as 'highways'.

http://www.test.glass-uk.org/images/stories/members/mem-library/articles/barsby-pvt.pdf

Therefore I reckon that it is perfectly correct to refer to the access roads to my local Tesco as 'private'. Although they may also be considered as highways.