cvoffeeking – sports bikes don’t have a lot of low torque so do not ride well in the lower rev range. A bike with a 13000 rpm redline does not work well at 3000 rpm.

It also will not handle properly at such low revs and in general they are harder to corner because of the wider rear tyre

Its also much harder to learn to corner it properly – the temptation is just to go fast in a straight line and slow right down for corners..

I find it odd that you should say that though as a colleague of mine rides an R1 (has done for a few years) and says lesser bikes are harder to deal with, harder to turn and feel less safe. He used to run about on a fazer 1000 (more torque, less top end) and didn’t like it, and before that a 600. I’m not a bike guy, I like a bit of padding around me. I’m just not sure why the same skills don’t simply apply to the larger bike but require more control.

Rather than recommend a bike I’ll tell you my tale.

16yrs old – 50cc
17 – old 250
Next bike 23yrs old – kmx 200 to commute on.

Long gap

27 – GSXR 400
3months later GSXR 600 SRAD
2weeks later, nearly died.

My patchy experience had convinced me that I was capable of riding it fast.

It didn’t put me off and 3 months later when my legs worked again I bought a TRX850 then later a GSXR 600 K2.
This time I did my Advanced Training & trackdays.

Now I get my kicks on a mountain bike.

My advice is, if you really want a sports bike, buy a track bike and use it properly.

On the road, on my sports bike I have been dusted once by a chap on a big old Triumph 1200 & once by a chap on a BMW GS. On both occasions they knew the road well but there was no way I was getting past!

And if you are super competitive and suffer from RedMist then don’t even buy a road bike.

coffeeking – the wider tyres alter the steering characteristics and not for the better, they are designed to work at a certain speed and revs and do not respond as well outside of that, throttles are much more sensitive and as you can maintain high average speeds without cornering quickly many people never learn to corner well.

The limits are so far away that you cannot even see them or get near to them – this all means that when something goes wrong you do not have tee reflexes to deal with it.

folowing riders I could always tell who had done their time on smaller bikes

Direct access costs vary, 2nd palce I went charged £550 for unlimited training upto your first test. Most places will charge £450-£500 for a 3 day course. Although the first place I went was so badly organised you wer elucky to get 3 hours riding in on any given day. The second place charged £100 per half day (~3 hours) but did do lessons 1to1 or if it was 2to1 the other guy was on his unlimited lesons so generaly rode behind you so you were getting the most benifit from the instructor and he was just getting in practice.

On top of that….

CBT £100
Theory test £35
Mod 1 £15
Mod 2 £75
+ fails (most people seem to fail at least one of the modules and if your on an intensive course you’ll lsoe the mod2 fee if you fail the mod1)

depends on the fuel injection type but many require rebalancing as they have manual throttles. some of the latest are fly by wire with stepper motors to control the throttles but most are a manual throttle in each throttle body that still needs to be synchronised. But then anyone who doesn’t do valve clearances in 60 000 miles must have huge mechanical knowledge

Can’t say I’ve ever needed that doing, even on my POS GSXR and that needed pretty much everything else rebuilding on it. I’ve checked valve clearances, they were fine. Whats your point?

What I have read about the cheap tyres is very different. I have not ridden recent maxxis but I have ridden cheap tyres in the past and would never do so again

Right, so what you’ve read about them overrides anyones personel experience then? You’ve not used Maxxis tyres, you don’t ride a sports bike and the only knowledge you have is what you’ve read, although not on the tyres in question.

This thread is becoming much like an IAM/ROSPA club discussion….motorcycles are fun, do the test, buy a bike and enjoy doing silly things….when i first got a bike i left early one morning with my passport in my pocket and sent my girlfriend a picture of me later that day in France….the Nurburgring (and back) is possible in a day if you catch the earliest and latest ferries available….and ride it like you stole it!….i put 16,000 miles on the 600cc i had for 18 months just from doing things for sh*ts and giggles….sadly the current bike has barely covered 4,000 miles in 18 months as i spend more time on the mountain bike now.

RR – can’t believe how cheap these have got

Decent FS

Muchos cheapness CBR600RR

In the interest of variety

For honda’s, especially F/FS’s dont be put off by higher than normal mileage. Also, a CBRF will always hold its money, especially if you buy now and sell around April/May time.

For honda’s, especially F/FS’s dont be put off by higher than normal mileage. Also, a CBRF will always hold its money, especially if you buy now and sell around April/May time.

Indeed – most motorcycles do such low milages that a higher than average mileage is no worry at all – but do check suspension and chains

it fantastic how muchbike yo can get for your money =- like in those ads above

Jap 4 is what you need, but remember even basket cases will be £1500.

If you go unfaired it will keep the speeds down…, and go as new/low miles as you can afford.

Helmet/Gloves/Jacket/Trousers/Boots could easily set you back £1000, but Hein Gericke is a good place to start.

As for evolution, my train of bikes are:
On ‘L’ plates 50/80/250
and then 250/350*3/600/90/750/900/1000/1050*2

And as for cheap tyres, I ran the remoulds that came out a few years ago and while the rears were decent, the fronts were crap – commuting on a zx9r.

And agree, most bike(r)s do stupidly low mileage – although mine has done 16k so far this year 🙂

Beware high mileage though as it doesn’t impact the engines, but can murder the running gear – and wear out discs etc. I ran my zx9r to over 50k, and once past 40k it cost me a bomb, as it was used in all weathers and needed loads replacing. Eventually p/x’d when the rad went – couldn’t physically get it off…

Motorbike engines have been bombproof for years, people used to run screaming from anything with more than 10k on the clock but most decent sized engines 400cc+ and multi-cylinder will do 100,000k now, the zx7r i bought had 28,000 miles on it and never miseed a beat….did only have it 3 months though!…..go on the Honda Blackbird forums and loads of those guys have 100,000+ mile bikes.

Ohhh, and be aware that they’re changeing the rules yet again to get rid of the MOD1 test and bringing back the turn in the road and manual handling excercises to the actual test (having wasted millions building test centers with MOD1 areas), whether getting rid of the swerve test is a good/bad idea is another matter*. So don’t take your mod1 in the weeks running upto the new test.

*I thought it was a good thing as it wasn’t untill I started practiceing for it that I really got to grips with how to flick a big heavy bike arround as you can’t muscle it about like you can a push bike or to some extent a CG125, you really have to use a different set of skills.

and ride it like you stole it!

I get a lot of business from guys who do that (and the occasional girl).

FWIW I’ve heard lots of good things about the new Maxxis and tyre advances have been so massive in the last 20 years that most of them have cornering capabilities, in a wide range of conditions, far exceeding those of your average rider. Having said that, my next tyres are going to be Diablo Supercorsas 😀

VFR400 or RVF400 are nice little bikes to start on

On tyres, Bike this month were testing the new Dunlop RoadSmart2 (sport/touring) tyres and said they’d be happy fitting them to sports bikes they were that good.

Right, my last post on the subject as I’m boring myself

Tips for buying a 2nd hand bike

Check head bearings. A 600 sports bike is ripe for practising your wheelies and some cack handed chav may well have tried. They will bugger the head bearings (see headset in MTB terms) and its no fun at all changing them. Therefore its not cheap to have them replaced. Same goes for fork seals as well although these are cheaper to do.

Chain and sprocket. Make sure its not at the end of its life (the adjusters are all the way out) and that its in decent nick. If a bikes not been looked after, the chain will be the first thing to give it away. And like a pushbike, you’ll need to do chain and sprocket at the same time and unlike a pushbike, they aren’t cheap.

Tyres – bargin a new set in if you can, or barter them down (as you would a car).

Brakes – take a test ride and check for pulsing at the lever. If it does, the discs are warped and they are quite expensive to replace. This is an MOT failure.

Non-standard parts – make sure you get all the original bits. Also I’d avoid anything with an aftermarket paintjob or polished frame – usually a sure fire sign that its been dropped. And if the fairing looks like it hasn’t seen much action compared to the mileage it probably hasn’t. Most folks fit aftermarket track bodywork to 600’s so they don’t damage the expensive road OEM stuff. Then refit and sell on. I know someone with a Ducati who did just this and that bike had seen more gravel traps than Lorenso

Other things like hero blobs (the bits under the footpegs) ground off often means its probably done some track work, or at least been ridden hard on the road. If thats the case salute him and walk away, there’s plenty about that you don’t need to get some ex track slag.

This is just stuff I’ve learnt from buying second hand in the past. But to be fair, its far more fun than buying a new bike and you won’t lose an astronomical amount of money like I have.

VFR400 or RVF400 are nice little bikes to start on

Like I said on the 1st page, only if you’re of Japanese proportions (say 5ft10 or lower).

On a related note, has the OP ever sat on a proper sports bike? I ask becasue he didn’t see any difference between an ER-6f, a CBR600f and a CBR600RR. A sports bike won’t suit everyone as they (stereotypicaly) have very high/backwards pegs on rearsets and clip on bars right down on the forks. Whereas an ER-6f will have footpegs in a ‘normal’ position rather than rearsets, a seat heigh where you want it, and handlebars with some rise rather than clip-ons.

Go an buy a copy of Bike, there’s a feature on workhorse/commuter/first bikes this month. Yamaha Tediums, Honda Dullvilles, etc etc.

What TJ said.

You won’t enjoy a sports bike anyway. But… if you must, a Firstorm.

Just remembered some advice I was given.

MotoGP is the F1 of Motorbikes

The bikes have 95% of the power, lightweightness, and componentry of a litre superbike you can walk into a dealer and buy. Infact the latest cost cutting proposals are to ban the prototypes and use production bikes. A Few years ago there was a bit of a barney because one of the lower teams decided not to buy yamaha M1’s, but some stock R1’s instead and replace every component with something slightly different to get arround the current prototype rules.

A Formula Ford has a quater of the power of a F1 car, and you wouldn’t dream of driving one on the road (yes you can SVA them with a numberplate, brake light and mirrors) straight after your test, so don’t think that because it’s got a quater of the power a 50cc twin is going to be rubbish!

Firestorms, nice bikes had one tiny fuel tank on the early ones. You may be all right on a sports bike straight off the bat, amate went from no riding to big fast bikes no problems but, no offence intended perhaps you need to go to a dealers sit on a few and see what sort of sports bike; mild er6 , sports tourer; zzr 600 (bit old nowadays) or honda vfr750 (reliable, comfy and fast) or nutter fast bike; blade, r1 etc you fancy, can fit on, afford, afford to insure etc, Then consider realisticaly what you are going to use it for; commuting, trackdays, fast touring across europe, looning around the lanes, just steady riding and then ask for a reccomendations. (I would point out I have ridden many bikes of various styles for many years both for fun and for work and been trained to a high degree and was quite fast on the road (lost it all now though :-))

For the road – Yamaha wr450f with supermoto wheels. Fun fun fun. Fun

Firestorms, nice bikes had one tiny fuel tank on the early ones

Not really, more the fact that they (well, mine anyway) only did sub 30mpg. 95 miles to RLOD was the norm, whereas the same size tank on a Blade would take you 50% further.

Kawasaki Ninja 250R? Good for beginners.

thieisnotaspoon – it was Peter Clifford’s WCM team that bought R1 engines and changed bits and pieces to race in MotoGP when it went to 990cc in 2002 i think?….the other teams put in a protest and had them thrown out….got to laugh that it now turns out he was a visionary and thats the way the class is heading, proddy engines in bespoke chassis!

Firestorms, nice bikes had one tiny fuel tank on the early ones

Not really, more the fact that they (well, mine anyway) only did sub 30mpg. 95 miles to RLOD was the norm, whereas the same size tank on a Blade would take you 50% further

True – Happy memories, mine had twin Yoshi cans on it – nice rumble on it!

You’re right Deviant.

And I agree totally.

Thread hijack – Who’s going to want to see Colin Edwards and Ant West rattling round at the back 4 seconds off the pace? They should have an under 21 championship on the CRT bitsas instead

Thank you all.

Very helpful.

May I phrase the question another way?:

“Can anyone recommend a bike which looks fast enough to attract the ladeez and has the capability to plonk one on the back, but which will not kill me as a complete beginner (with redmist/aggressive tendencies)”?

I don’t care about it actually going fast but I want it to look like it’s going at 90mph when it’s stood still.

What’s your budget?

Unlimited really, but set a max of £5,000 given all the additional expenses. Something for £2,000 would be nice. It’s only my first bike – no need for anything fancy schmancy. Something that looks fast but rides reliable. CBR600 looks compelling.

Cbr600f. Ive had all sorts including big sports bikes and giant traillies. They are common, fairly cheap, not too intimidating and spares are plentifull. A bit like the focus of the car world. It wont spit you off unless your really cack handed and some models/colours look quite nice. I’m 6’2″ and its comfy and has a decent tank range (for a sports bike). Mines an older one (1999) but goes like stink and handles well. You just have to rev them compared to litre bikes. As mentioned earlier an sv650 would be a good choice too.

Get a cbr600. It will do everything you want. Fast, great handling, and light. You can carry a pillion and it looks good.

word of warning for the RR model, if you want it for commuting it will only really average high 30 mpg.

Where abouts in the country are you?

£5k for attracting ladeez?
Aprilia Dorsoduro might turn my head. I’m not a lady though. But bikes are crap at attracting ladies.

I will search for CBR 600Fs and post a shortlist on here in a few days – will be really interested to hear all your views. Thank you all very much. Is Biketrader the best place or will I be scammed, sort of like a Gumtree for bikes?

IME that is not the sort of bike that attracts the laydeez (the Aprillia that is), they tend to like sleek, fast and stylish (apologies if that sounds sexist) but it’s the same reasoning why ‘most’ women don’t go for muddy mountainbikers 😉

Now if you want a babe magnet here’s mine and a very nice example can be picked up for <£1500, insurance is nowt (£79 a year for me) and it goes like stink – also one of the few bikes which flatters the female posterior.

Its also much harder to learn to corner it properly – the temptation is just to go fast in a straight line and slow right down for corners..

Absolutely right. I passed my test and within 3 weeks was on a ZZR1100 (years ago). I could stuff everyone on the straights and just pottered round the corners. Then times was hard and I sold it and bought an AR125. Then I learnt to ride properly because I had to keep up the momentum.

If you want reliable, comfortable and still very quick but easy to handle then a VFR750/800 will do the job. I recently tested an Aprilia RSV, Blade, Blackbird, R1 and VFR800 when I wanted a new (old) bike. I bought the VFR because not only was it the most comfortable and cheapest of the ones I tested, but on my test route it was the fastest as well. Mostly because the suspension was set for the road not a super smooth track and the power was more controllable than with the more powerful bikes. On the Blade and the Aprilia I was virtually crippled after a 40min test ride and this slowed me down. the VFR i can go on all day. It’s hardly slow either – it’s apparently good for 160mph…

For what its worth I took my test 2 1/2 years ago and got a BMW F650 single has max 50 bhp and whilst something that could cruise a bit quicker on the Mway would be nice its fine. It gets out of breath above 75-80 and is pretty slow for a bike, its still quicker than most cars to 60 and great fun to ride. I dont get close to using its limited capabilities, having a beardie weirdie advanced instructor to help me has been an eye opener (joined http://www.tvam.org.uk/). A sports bike will take you fast in a straight line but you will not really learn to ride quickly.

Get a 600 Hornet if it is an old one put some cash into sorting the suspension. Can scratch and go as fast as you will want to and is easy to ride and comfortable.

£5k for attracting ladeez?
Aprilia Dorsoduro might turn my head. I’m not a lady though. But bikes are crap at attracting ladies.

Nice bike, would attract me… I’m not a lady either though

Sounds like you want to give her beans now and then so I’d seriously recommend a track day with whatever you buy. Find out what you and it can do without frost/diesel/lamp-posts/manure/potholes/them smallest french cars with the worst drivers/mad cyclists.

You’ll probably do what a lot do and push the limit on the roads slightly more and more as time goes on. An approach which favours the involvement of luck.

Now if you want a babe magnet here’s mine and a very nice example can be picked up for <£1500, insurance is nowt (£79 a year for me) and it goes like stink – also one of the few bikes which flatters the female posterior.

Especially female Klingon posteriors.

I’m a big Aprilia fan, having owned, put 20k miles on then smashed to smithereens an 03 RSV but those big supermotos (and big KTMs) are just wrong, a compromise.

Supermoto is about light, flickable fun, not all day comfort. It’s about grip, lean angle, wheelies, riding up ginels/snickets and just generally upsetting hand wringers.