Can you help me work out what's happening with my chimneys?

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Can you help me work out what's happening with my chimneys?

22 posts & 12 voices | Started 1 year ago by lister | Latest reply from mcmoonter

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lister - Member

We live in an end of terrace Victorian house. The fireplaces are on the end wall. We have an open fire in the front lounge, and a Baxi boiler (for hot water and central heating) and gas fire has been fitted in the back room (playroom). The bedroom above the front lounge (1) is our room and has no visible fireplace in it. The bedroom (2) above the playroom is out little boy's room and also has no fireplace visible, but that room has a small corner cupboard where the hot water tank is.

We've had open fires in the lounge every winter since we moved in 7 years ago with no problems. We has the chimney swept about a month ago and have had fires since then with no problems.

Last night our son was awake in the evening and when I went upstairs his room smelt strongly of smoke (the fire was lit). Our room (above the lounge) has no smoke smell.
I've just lit the fire and now the back playroom is smokey, but his room above that only smells slightly of smoke...and it seems to be coming from the corner cupboard where the hot water tank is.

Sorry for the long explanation! Any ideas how the smoke might be going to a different downstairs room, but didn't last night? How is the smoke going from the front of the house to the back without making the room directly above the fire smell as well?

Cheers for ANY ideas!

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

Oh yeah, and I've jsut poked my head into the loft and there is a bit of smoke in there, but no where near as much as downstairs...weird!

Posted 1 year ago #
mastiles_fanylion - Member

Depends on the routing of the chimneys and any blockages (deliberate or malfunction) of them.

Perhaps the sweep dislodged something which has now worked loose?

Get someone who knows what they are doing to check it out pronto.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

Get someone who knows what they are doing to check it out pronto.

+1

Posted 1 year ago #
wwaswas - Member

stop using it until you've had it checked - if the lining's become porous you could be poisoning youselves

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

yeah, guess so, just seems to be weird it's started to happen so quickly. Can't work out how the chimneys are routed, I assume there would have been 4 fireplaces originally, but there are only 3 chinmey pots so god knows whats going on there!

Posted 1 year ago #
Macavity - Member

Old mortar maybe breaking up, allowing pathway for smoke. Sometimes recommended to get a liner fitted to chimneys.

Posted 1 year ago #
mastiles_fanylion - Member

Sorry for the long explanation! Any ideas how the smoke might be going to a different downstairs room, but didn't last night? How is the smoke going from the front of the house to the back without making the room directly above the fire smell as well?

On reading that part again I would say there may be a blockage in the chimney between the floors.

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

Shame my 4 year is a big lad or he'd be off up there to find out

Need to ring my tame builder I guess...

Posted 1 year ago #
BigJohn - Member

In cold weather there is a big column of cold air that has to be warmed up before the chimney will start drawing properly. Until the whole lot gets warm the cold air will come tumbling back down again bringing smoke with it.

And you might have had a pigeon fall in.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

In cold weather there is a big column of cold air that has to be warmed up before the chimney will start drawing properly. Until the whole lot gets warm the cold air will come tumbling back down again bringing smoke with it.

+1 Even worse, if there is very little wind.

You could try a smoke bomb and then get into the loft to see if the stack is porous.

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

Just been reading about smoke testing, might see if that's a cheaper option to start with rather than getting the builder in...

I've noticed a variation in the draw over the years, especially on cold, still, damp nights...I'm thinking it might be a combination of old house, cold air and more sensitivity due to having kids in the house,

bummer is that we switch the central heating off when the kids are in bed and use the fire to keep the lounge warm in the evenings before legging it to a very cold bedroom...loathe to have the heating on for extra, we'll have to dig more jumpers out instead!

Posted 1 year ago #
rightplacerighttime - Member

My *guess* is that there is a liner in the chimney from the gas fire (and probably that it isn't backfilled with insulation around the liner). Hence no problem with gases from the gas fire into the bedroom up to now.

But having your chimney swept has dislodged a brick between the two chimneys and smoke is now passing from the active chimney into the one that has the liner through it and then through some other crack or hole out into the bedroom.

The solution is probably to get the chimney repaired by opening it up, fixing the dislodged brick then making good the hole you've made for access.

Might pay to put a camera up or down the chimney or consult a chimney sweep, then hpe that they make the hole into the chimney in the right place first time (although in your case it sounds like it can be done from outside so maybe not too messy - should take one bloke one day - so around £150)

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

oops!

Posted 1 year ago #
sharkbait - Member

Obviously you shouldn't be able to smell any smoke in any of the upstairs rooms/loft unless the open fire smoked on startup due to poor draw.
Victorian houses quite often had fireplaces in the bedrooms which have now been [badly] closed.
Smoke is either going out the top of one chimney and then falling down the other due to cold flu or there is a breach between the flu's as has already been said.
Not sure I'd bother fixing the breach between the two flues - I'd save the money and get the open fire flu lined (so both flues have liners) and while you're at it put a stove in...... much nicer

Posted 1 year ago #
sharki - Member

In the time it's taken me to type all this, it appears to of been covered by others..

But i've posted it now..

The chimney breasts will be linked 2 into 1 stack/pot.

The third pot could be either from the kitchen or main bedroom or both.

Sounds like there's now a blockage.

Back in the day, chimneys were parged, which is basically a lime/ sand, poo based thin coat render. There's a chance this has delaminated and a section has come off(possibly during the frosts) causing restricted draw.

Either that or a bird/nest material.

Did your sweep manage to sweep the flue from the baxi?
I'm not sure they are easy to do.

They themselves shouldn't soot up, but as that chimney maybe linked, there's a chance something has dislodged and is causing a restriction.

Do a smoke test, starting with the fireplace the boiler is in.
Note which pot the smoke comes out.
There will be a covered fireplace in the both the upstairs bedrooms.

The cupboard with the HW tank in, i assume has pipes going into where the chimney breast would appear to be.

This was a common route used to feed the HW pipes pumping water from the boiler. Check to see how sealed the pipes are where they come through the wall.

If the draw is greater from a room than the chimney pot, then the smoke will head there.

HTH

How sealed your house is will also effect draw, as air needs to come in to affectively be drawn up the chimney.

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

Not sure how I would either do a smoke check or sweep the flue for the boiler?
The only chimney we have ever had swept is the open fire...wsan't aware that you had to sweep flues for gas fires/boilers...the top is well protected with reagrd to birds nests etc.

Posted 1 year ago #
TheBrick - Member

while you're at it put a stove in...... much nicer

more efficient and more controllable.

Posted 1 year ago #
lister - Member

lucky they are so cheap and i have so much spare cash at the moment then

Posted 1 year ago #
sharki - Member

You'd not normally have to sweep the boiler flue, though it appears that now there is a restriction above that flue causing smoke to come down into that room or the above.

Having now re-read the OP(sorry MTG) there is most likely a breech from one flue to another.

A smoke test should be possible by access to the Baxi. Usually an old gas fire would of been installed, these can be lifted out to gain access, but by a competent person only. If there isn't one there must be access to the bolier, and therefore the flue..

I suggest calling a good fluologist, who is capable of testing it properly.

Posted 1 year ago #
sneaky jean - Member

If the property is that old it probably has no flue liners & would only have been parged (rendered) on the lower section - over a period of time the sand & lime bedding in the joints drops out especially if cleaned, this may allow, especially in the roof space, the smoke to leak through the joints when the fire is first lit & the flue is cold. You may find that the fire places have been taken out & a vent brick put behind the skirting which is letting in smoke when the flue is cold. A worst problem is when the floor joist ends are built into the fireplace wall & the smoke is finding it's way around the joints. Check the pipes to & from the back boiler to the cylinder as the probably go down the flue & are leaking smoke around where they are built in.
It is IMPORTANT that you DO NOT light the fires until you have solved the problem.

Posted 1 year ago #
mcmoonter - Member

Big John has it. Adjacent chimneys can suck smoke down.

Posted 1 year ago #

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