@Drac Sorry, I forgot my maths in the heat of the moment!

Like rone says, most people I know pirating content aren’t struggling for cash if we’re taking anecdotes into account. Mostly they do it because they’re lazy or maybe get some vicarious thrill out of doing something “proper nawty”, or maybe

don’t place any value on the work or the art.

So many false arguments. “oh I’d not have watched it if not for a pirate stream/download”. How many times did you send a cheque to the creator because you watched it and went “I’d have paid to watch that”? Don’t everyone rush to answer all at once!

Streaming.

Content not available by any other means inc paid/subscription inc content blocked due to national boundaries and news programmes (eg cbs 60 minutes etc)
Content available weeks and months before official release elsewhere
Subtitles freely available

I go the cinema 3 times a month, rent from iTunes and Curzon (£10 a film for in cinema release) etc however streaming services offer a huge amount of content not available elsewhere.

@jamby all this from a man who wants more intrusive surveillance, banning vpn’s and more…

^^ yes and yes mike. If they want to arrest/charge me for it then so be it. Also not clear its illegal, selling the fully loaded boxes is.

Music has started shifting to a streaming format thats so cheap people don’t really pirate. I still buy all my music but I imagine I am an outlier, only 4-6 albums a year anyway.

Content not available by any other means inc paid/subscription inc content blocked due to national boundaries and news programmes (eg cbs 60 minutes etc)
Content available weeks and months before official release elsewhere
Subtitles freely available

That doesn’t give anyone the right to take it, just like you wouldn’t raid the B&Q lorry on the way to the distribution centre and take your goods before they hit the store.

Blocked stuff like News I would let pass. I can see the logic for that, but it’s still subject to rights/distribution and has a production model that costs someone.

I go the cinema 3 times a month, rent from iTunes and Curzon (£10 a film for in cinema release) etc however streaming services offer a huge amount of content not available elsewhere.

Well it’s good you do pay for something. But there are lots of people that pay for nothing in terms of media. It’s theft. It’s the attitude that they can just have it because it’s been made available. I have friends who I could fall out with over this, as I know for a fact if someone wandered into their workplaces and ‘borrowed’ some of their resources they would go all Daily Mail on the perpetrators.

There needs to be a social stigma attached to this.

It’s not theft, it’s copyright infringement.

I’m still staggered this is even a debate. Taking/consuming something without the owner’s permission is theft. No one on here would condone the same when it comes to bike theft. No one.

It’s not theft, it’s copyright infringement.

We have different legal terms for murder too.

Federation Against Copyright Theft – I guess some people think it is.

It’s not a debate, theft is not the same thing as copyright infringement.

It’s not a debate, theft is not the same thing as copyright infringement.

If you’re not creating a copy how is it copyright infringement?

bruneep – Member
Five arrests in ‘fully loaded’ Kodi streaming box raids

The legal issue there is clearly making money on the back of them, still doesn’t make it illegal to do it yourself.

As for the post above about sticking it to murdoch, I couldn’t really careless about that tbh. 😆

As for peoples jobs and shit. Well shit happens, jobs get devalued as the population deems so, mine has over the year to a point.

You either adapt and survive or you go down. Business models don’t last forever. Plus you’ll find alot of people that do pirate also pay for content too. The industry needs to open up their content, not try to sell partial bits of it at a premium. We aren’t cash cows, nor daft.

If you’re not creating a copy how is it copyright infringement?

If you are talking specifically about the streaming boxes, then as I understand it at the moment it’s a bit of a grey area, if it is going to be anything however it will be some form of copyright infringement not theft.

Time for the pedants….
If your ripping off content creators have the balls to admit it. Don’t go hiding behind the technicalities, you want something that people charge money for and your getting it for nothing.

If your ripping off content creators have the balls to admit it. Don’t go hiding behind the technicalities, you want something that people charge money for and your getting it for nothing.

Nicely and succinctly put

Accuracy != pedantry.

mikewsmith – Member
Time for the pedants….
If your ripping off content creators have the balls to admit it. Don’t go hiding behind the technicalities, you want something that people charge money for and your getting it for nothing.

I’ve got no problem with that. The technicalities are just there to disprove the myth of illegality.

It’s an odd one and bit like Sony manufacturing burnable dvds so that we could all copy out favourite Sony backed movie. sony wanted slices of all markets.
Most content comes with ready made adverts where we go out and buy the products that are set in front of us, the advertisers won’t care whether we’re paying for that content or not. This is probably a far greater revenue stream than subscriptions, and yet the subscription services even permit us to ff through the adverts anyway.
I wonder how many of the pay up brigade complain about Wayne Rooney earning 300k per week for kicking a bit of leather around. Sky is not short of a bob or two.
I pay for some services through BT TV, and don’t pay for others like the games I can’t be bothered going to myself or popping to the pub for.
I pay for dvds if I want a film and cds for music ( a good half dozen this year).
I don’t watch crap TV.
I’m comfortable with my decision and watch with mirth at the frothers. 😛

thisisnotaspoon – Member

It’s a bit like going down to the local car boot and seeing a fat bike, you’ve always really wanted a fat bike, and it’s practically being given away.

But it’s fine, the market was setup with completely legitimate intentions, so no harm done and the law might never catch up with you.

In this analogy Kodi is the Market. You don’t advocate shutting downa whole market because a couple of the traders are selling knockoffs. You just go after the dodgy dealers.

I think I’m the same as a fair few here, the odd thing i’ll stream but I pay for enough too. Some things I’m happier to pay for than others and I don’t put the same value on most stuff as the vendor does. For example, I don’t think its worth £40 a month to watch sky sports but I would happily pay a couple of quid for the odd game. I don’t have that option though. Same type of thing applies to most films. If the stream wasn’t available I’d just not watch it until it came on TV, with some exceptions.

Theres an article in the Telegraph linked to somewehre which quotes £36bn revenues for the film industry and a loss of £500m to piracy. Two things to note: 1 – that’s not really a very big loss, I think its a lower proportion than shoplifting in traditional shops, and 2 – most of that £500m isn’t lost as it simply wouldn’t be watched in the first place.

So, to sum it up, meh.

It’s a bit like going down to the local car boot and seeing a fat bike, you’ve always really wanted a fat bike, and it’s practically being given away.

More like seeing a fat bike at the market and ripping off the design.

If you’re not creating a copy how is it copyright infringement?

it’s not even that. If I go into a pub that’s got a chipped skybox/whatever and is showing something they aren’t allowed to, then the landlord is doing the copyright infringement, the punters are, well, erm….quick lets make up a new law.

Streaming is not sharing/distributing or making a copy for yourself so it’ll be interesting to see what they come up with. Of course it’s the law so it can be twisted to do what lawmakers want, but I still think it’ll be a push. We’ll see.

Lost revenue due to piracy is also a bit of a misnomer, sure some people pirate content instead of paying for them, plenty of others would never have paid for the content anyway.

I’m not saying piracy is all fine and dandy, it is morally dubious wrong* and there can be legal repercussions, but it’s not theft.

*I think dubious is probably a bit soft, we all know it’s “not right” we just argue over how wrong it is

I am expecting this to result in a similar scenario as the music industry. New services like Netflix will expand to provide a more comprehensive service. Current service providers will be forced to adapt or die. Artists will get screwed. The industry as a whole will continue to make money. Users will get a better service. Progress.

I would happily pay a couple of quid for the odd game. I don’t have that option though

You can buy a day pass. A bit more than a couple of quid, granted, but the option is there to watch the game without signing up to an ongoing commitment or paying £40.

Yes, its something like £10 for the day. I don’t want a days worth of 8 channels of shite. I want to watch one channel for 2 hours. £2 seems fair. But what they are actually doing is setting the bar so high that is actually a push to the higher subscription fee i.e. it only takes a few days and you may as well have bought the full package.

“oh I’d not have watched it if not for a pirate stream/download”. How many times did you send a cheque to the creator because you watched it and went “I’d have paid to watch that”? Don’t everyone rush to answer all at once!

I have done. Ok, not a cheque as I’m not a pensioner, but I’ve subsequently bought things (some times multiple times over) that I’ve already had a pirate copy of.

Lost revenue due to piracy is also a bit of a misnomer, sure some people pirate content instead of paying for them, plenty of others would never have paid for the content anyway.

I’ve said this before but, I spend as much as I can realistically afford on media (Sky, Netflix, Spotify, cinema trips, and a wallful of physical media). If I wasn’t able to download / stream from illegitimate sources I wouldn’t spend more on media, I’d simply watch less. And generally I’ll only do that if I can’t get it via legitimate sources anyway.

Some people are serial pirates and never spend a penny if they can help it, of course. But the notion that a copied TV show directly equates 1:1 to a lost sale is disingenuous at best.

(Oh, and add TV licence to that list.)

just a quick question to the hive mind.

I have netflix and BBC licence, want to Wifi stream to older tv set with HDMI port and an audio input.

do not want to enter any PP or CC details to register a device.

what box with a decent on screen browser and remote would you recommend?

thanks

More like seeing a fat bike at the market and ripping off the design.

For that to be the case, Kodi would have to be streaming amdram reenactments of Game Of Thrones.

I don’t see streaming stuff you haven’t paid for much different to watching a bluray at your mates house. Crack on.

@rone speeding is a crime too

I have netflix and BBC licence, want to Wifi stream to older tv set with HDMI port and an audio input.

do not want to enter any PP or CC details to register a device.

Chromecast?

Cougar – Moderator

I’ve said this before but, I spend as much as I can realistically afford on media (Sky, Netflix, Spotify, cinema trips, and a wallful of physical media). If I wasn’t able to download / stream from illegitimate sources I wouldn’t spend more on media, I’d simply watch less. And generally I’ll only do that if I can’t get it via legitimate sources anyway.

I access STW via an add blocking browser.

I still buy bike parts.

You can see how spending money on a TV licence doesn’t absolve me of ‘paying’ other parts of the industry like Sky ( or ST via ad revenue) for access Game of Thrones (or STW)?

(I’m being hypocritical, but it highlights yours)

you should probly edit that.

pypdjl – Member
Accuracy != pedantry.

Do you think it’s morally right to be doing it?

km79 – Member
I don’t see streaming stuff you haven’t paid for much different to watching a bluray at your mates house. Crack on.

lol, really does your mate invite a few thousand round to watch his blue ray collection any time they want to?

here we have the real crux of it, it’s perception – People still buy stuff, it’s not all of us, I really want to watch that it’s all the same version of piracy just admit your doing it bnecause you don’t want to pay

Do you think it’s morally right to be doing it?The morality is a complex question. Which I don’t really think the entertainment industry has much claim to.

The morality is a complex question.

If you produce something that is your intellectual property can I have it for free without asking?

Which I don’t really think the entertainment industry has much claim to.

Is that becasue it makes it easier for you to take it for free without permission or do you have some other grave moral reasons?

mikewsmith – Member
The morality is a complex question.

If you produce something that is your intellectual property can I have it for free without asking?

crack on, dunno much if i’d call it content, rather than just fannying aboot and a tiny part of a learning process mind you, but wire in! 😆

Is that becasue it makes it easier for you to take it for free without permission or do you have some other grave moral reasons?

no, because it’s a complex question, what is inherently moral about the entertainment industry? (try and answer without ddistilling it down to the poor artist getting screwed, generally that’s going to happen regardless.)

You also seem to think i need some reason or convoluted thought process beyond, i can. I don’t

The only reason that this discussion is happening is because the TV and film industry have spectacularly failed to adapt to the fact that THE INTERNET EXISTS.

If it wasn’t for Spotify and then Netflix making a serious effort to adapt to the new landscape, none of them would have even bothered with the half-arsed attempt they have made so far.

They would be far better (IMO) accepting a larger percentage of a smaller number, than trying to charge a high premium, and then”lock” people out unless they pay. The reality is that they can’t lock people out because THE INTERNET EXISTS.

GOT in Australia is a great example – piracy of this show in Australia broke all records a couple of years ago I think. Why? Because the only way for people to watch it was to:
Subscribe to Foxtel (sky) for a year
Take a day off work so an engineer can come and bolt a satellite dish to the side of your house, then run a cable down your wall and drill a hole in your lounge.
Subscribe to the premium package that included that show (an a ton of other stuff you don’t want).
Set the box to record it every week, if you didn’t happen to be in when it was on.
Fast-forward through the adverts that appear every 15 minutes – even though you are paying for the show in the first place.

Or, you could wait 20 seconds after the show finishes airing in the US, navigate to a website and hit play.

I do agree with the argument that pirating is wrong (from a moral perspective), but the problem only exists because the content providers are looking to rort their consumers. Technology has caught up with them, but instead of adapting, they just whinge because their trough isn’t as full as it used to be.

If you produce something that is your intellectual property can I have it for free without asking?

You can look at it. Twice if you like.

I do agree with the argument that pirating is wrong (from a moral perspective), but the problem only exists because the content providers are looking to rort their consumers. Technology has caught up with them, but instead of adapting, they just whinge because their trough isn’t as full as it used to be.

Indeed.

I little while back, I tried to get hold of an episode of something for my OH that she’d missed and forgotten to record. Strictly of something similar, nothing earth-shattering.

After spending nearly an entire evening trying and failing to obtain it through Iplayer in a manner that would let me play it on the TV, I gave up and torrented it in about five minutes.

Whilst companies are so obsessed with DRM and various ways to fox you from viewing something which aired for free 24 hours ago, the Internet is always going to be too attractive a proposition to ignore for your average punter.

If the viewing experience is better with paid content, I believe most people will pay for it. But if you buy a film and it’s got 20 minutes of mandatory unskippable adverts, trailers, piracy warnings and the like before you even get to start watching, every time you load the disc, again people are going to look to other sources.

just admit your doing it bnecause you don’t want to pay

mikewsmith with the real answers here.

Why not just accept you can’t get everything you want? When my Sky sub finished I didn’t go out and pirate GoT. I just watched something else.

At the end of the day, media is just entertainment. Just watch something else FFS.